PvP jewels with 80 - 90% spell resistance. - TECHNICAL SUPPORT / WEB APPs BUGS

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Forums » TECHNICAL SUPPORT / WEB APPs BUGS » PvP jewels with 80 - 90% spell resistance.

#18 Added by Tizona 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Well one thing is obvious, it is definitly a bug about the cap and if everyone wears those jewels there will be no point in using any magic anymore. This is an urgent one so please do fix it as soon as you can.

And about the Range beeing an advantage. i disagree. in order to cast you have to stop, So the range isnnt really an issue.

If you re doing an average damage of 150 per spell, and lets say you can cast 4 times before a melee gets near you you can do awesome dmg of around 600 hp. while the melee hits you once with his swords and does 1000. then you can start running away, but if you have to cast then you will have to stop again, while the melee will interrupt your spell and do another 1000 damage to you, while you can do another cast that most likely gets resisted and you will do NO damage, only 2 out of 10 spells will hit you. You know that if everybody will have a set with those resistances, magic will become useless. You just want melees to be strong and that no magic wont be any threat to you.

Last edited by Tizona (1 decade ago)

#19 Added by Lamda 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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I don't like this bug ! O_O

#20 Added by Eruv 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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i would just like to say from a purely mathematical and logical point of view, not about comparing mage to range to melee, not about pvp mechanics....

IF 31% WAS the real maximum magic resist rate, then mages WILL do much more damage than they do now, plain and simply. mages currently are opporating at a disadvantage. how big or how small makes no matter. it IS a big difference between 31 and 85, but im not here to discuss that

bottom line, at the correct max resist you will get hit about 7/10 times not 2/10
the mage will waste less hp and sap credits
require less healing
etc etc

its about game balance, just because some of us may like it the way it is so that they dont have to worry about magic damage so much, doesnt mean it should stand the way it is

im happy that if i have the right jewels ill live alot longer but one day when i get my ele master i will feel like i used up alot of time to get something that is being kicked in the nuts so to speak. thats just my 2 cents

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#21 Added by Icus 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Tizona (atys)

Well one thing is obvious, it is definitly a bug about the cap and if everyone wears those jewels there will be no point in using any magic anymore. This is an urgent one so please do fix it as soon as you can.

And about the Range beeing an advantage. i disagree. in order to cast you have to stop, So the range isnnt really an issue.

If you re doing an average damage of 150 per spell, and lets say you can cast 4 times before a melee gets near you you can do awesome dmg of around 600 hp. while the melee hits you once with his swords and does 1000. then you can start running away, but if you have to cast then you will have to stop again, while the melee will interrupt your spell and do another 1000 damage to you, while you can do another cast that most likely gets resisted and you will do NO damage, only 2 out of 10 spells will hit you. You know that if everybody will have a set with those resistances, magic will become useless. You just want melees to be strong and that no magic wont be any threat to you.

One single nuke 250 with 100% amp : 1500 dmg. Maximum absorption : 70%. So you will deal at least 1500*0.3=450 damage on a single nuke. and you can enchant your amp, so you don't have to stop to cast. And well, the tank will definitively have problem to catch you, and he have a 2H weapon he have ~40/45%chance of hitting you. So no, melees aren't really better dmg dealer than mages.

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#22 Added by Hevlaska 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Icus (atys)

One single nuke 250 with 100% amp : 1500 dmg. Maximum absorption : 70%. So you will deal at least 1500*0.3=450 damage on a single nuke. and you can enchant your amp, so you don't have to stop to cast. And well, the tank will definitively have problem to catch you, and he have a 2H weapon he have ~40/45%chance of hitting you. So no, melees aren't really better dmg dealer than mages.

you sure have no clue what we re talking about in this topic, dont you ?

1. First off - to do 1500 dmg in pvp you need a dual missile with time credit - the max you actually can do without time credit is a 250/225 spell.

2. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ABSORB -> NOT ABSORB IS NOT BUGGED, BUT RESIST IS !
If you press p you can see your resistances on the left and the absorbs on the right called ( protection )

Resist can bypass the given Limit of 275 wich is around 30% chance to RESIST a spell. ( pay attention im still not talking about absorb ) and if you equip enough jewels to get a total of 304 RESISTANCE (wich the client will not show you ) in one domain, it equals a 80+% chance to RESIST the spell according to that domain. Jungle = Elec / Desert = fire... etc ( did you get it now ... ?). now if you want you can add one 50% chance to ABSORB wich will cute the remaining 20% of the spells average damage by half. so the remaining AVERAGE damage equls 150.

so 304 resist = 80% chance to totally get NO DAMAGE from a spell
( i am still not talking about ABSORB, i hope you got that now)

so 1500 damage x 0,2 ( the remaining chance to hit ) x 0,5 ( an absorb for that spell wich you can see on the right ) x 10 (to show you that you need more than one cast in order to see the AVERAGE damage done) casts / 10 (in order to get the average damage PER SPELL ill divide it by 10 again= 150 ( average damage per spell)

1500 x 0,8 x 0,2 x 10 /10 = 150

so to to make it simple for you :
you cast 10 spells , 8 spells get RESISTED and 50% of the remaining damage that actually hits get RESISTED by 50% ( let`s not even take the maximum of 70% ABSORB but only 50% ABSORB). Wich will make your effective damage done to the target using this exploit, even below 150 if you dont use timecredits.

and again please stop trolling around make sure you know what you are talking about before you post

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Hevlaska (1 decade ago)

#23 Added by Eruv 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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hev i just wanted to say i have alot of respect for your prudence in editing your post =)

thanks

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#24 Added by Hevlaska 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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was only removing typos and some offesive comments.

However, here we go. This is what we are talking about.

Adiran (atys)

Here you can see there is supposed to be a max Limit for those resistances. Wich should not get beyond 31% Resist. However if you keep adding jewels with Resistance your Domain Resistance will get above those 31% wich you can see in the picture. Althought the client will not show it to you, but the real value will raise. And that you can test by yourself if you don`t believe it.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Hevlaska (1 decade ago)

#25 Added by Icus 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Hevlaska (atys)

1. First off - to do 1500 dmg in pvp you need a dual missile with time credit - the max you actually can do without time credit is a 250/225 spell.

One 250 nuke does 750 damage. With 100% amps (or 97%, almost the same), it is 1500 damage(or 1477dmg)

Hevlaska (atys)

2. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ABSORB -> NOT ABSORB IS NOT BUGGED, BUT RESIST IS !

And yet we are ; you are able to have a very high resist against 3 magic, so there is 2 domains where almost all your spells will do dmg. Tip : use poison spell, there is maybe 1% of PvP jewels with a high forest-resist.

Resist can bypass the given Limit of 275 wich is around 30% chance to RESIST a spell. ( pay attention im still not talking about absorb ) and if you equip enough jewels to get a total of 304 RESISTANCE (wich the client will not show you ) in one domain, it equals a 80+% chance to RESIST the spell according to that domain. Jungle = Elec / Desert = fire... etc ( did you get it now ... ?). now if you want you can add one 50% chance to ABSORB wich will cute the remaining 20% of the spells average damage by half. so the remaining AVERAGE damage equls 150.

so 304 resist = 80% chance to totally get NO DAMAGE from a spell
( i am still not talking about ABSORB, i hope you got that now)

so 1500 damage x 0,2 ( the remaining chance to hit ) x 0,5 ( an absorb for that spell wich you can see on the right ) x 10 (to show you that you need more than one cast in order to see the AVERAGE damage done) casts / 10 (in order to get the average damage PER SPELL ill divide it by 10 again= 150 ( average damage per spell)

1500 x 0,8 x 0,2 x 10 /10 = 150

Have you ever done a PvP jewel set ? If you have 304 resistance, you just can't have 50% protection in the same spell. Or you will have a spell with a low protection and a low resistance (except if you go for a prime/lake/whatever set, where you wil be able to get a decent protection too)

And don't use 10 spells, it just means nothing, in a probabilistic point of view. And using it the way you are doing it (*10/10) is just a multiplication per 1. So it's more like
1500*0.2=300(a little less, there is often some little protection in your high resistance) if you're focusing on the resistance
1500*0.3*0.91=409 if you're focusing on resistance (including the base 9% of resisting a spell)

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#26 Added by Casy 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Tizona (atys)

Casy (atys)

You can not get "80-90%" resistance vs elemental magic.

You are wrong.
your post shows that you have clue what you re talking about.
Try it first before you write anything.
I tried it and i confirm it does work. [...]

I have a clue, yes, thanks. However i think you didn't mean that... just read icus' post for a more elaborate explanation, maybe you get it. there is no "80-90%" resistance vs elemental magic, only against some types of elemental magic, just as i said in the first place.

Combined with the red edit in the first post i can only conclude that you both did not consider limitations to jewel crafting. Bug reports should always be objective and not exaggerate the findings or their impact.

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#27 Added by Xatokar 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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"The natural resistance to magic increases when you enter a PvP zone."
http://forums.ryzom.com/archive/index.php/t-8930.html

Patch 2, part 2 of 2004

In order to increase, the cap would have to be removed in PvP areas.

Looks like this is by design, not a bug.

#28 Added by Tizona 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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No matter if you like this bug or not. It is a bug after all and those who use it have an unfair advantage over those who do not know it.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Tizona (1 decade ago)

#29 Added by Nuno 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Hi!

This "news" is old news. Most people that craft good jewels know that resists have no cap. It's one of the first "ryzom secrets" i learned.

The GMs/DEVs also know about it since forever. If they know about it, it's not a bug. (full stop)

Regarding the first post: you can only have 3 resists per jewel, not 5...

Anyway, without what most of us call the "resist jewels", magic would overpower every other skill in PvP. Mass PvP would consist of 2 mage pods bombing eachother 40m away. I'm fine with it, as long as it's the same for everybody...

Have fun,
Nuno

#30 Added by Auriga 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Only that this bug is known by GMs / Devs doesn`t make it a secret Ryzom feature, what kind of ridiculous argumentation is that.
The server bypasses the values that are shown as maximum in the client, this actually is a bug, was a bug and will always be a bug, no matter if it`s known or how you want to call it. ... get serious

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Auriga (1 decade ago)

#31 Added by Nuno 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Auriga (atys)

Only that this bug is known by GMs / Devs doesn`t make it a secret Ryzom feature, what kind of ridiculous argumentation is that.
The server bypasses the values that are shown as maximum in the client, this actually is a bug, was a bug and will always be a bug, no matter if it`s known or how you want to call it. ... get serious

The devs coded it on purpose, AFAIK. Yes, there's a bug, It's in the client that doesn't show the correct values while doing PvP.

There are many other cases where the correct values don't show up in the client, some that i consider more important than the jewel resists. But YMMV, ofc.

Regarding your (only?) argument that my argument is ridiculous, i find it ridiculous :-D

Have fun,
Nuno

#32 Added by Auriga 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Sounds like you`re obviously using this bug on puprose and you seem to enjoy it, because it gives you an advantage over those who don`t know about it.

This is simply not fair towards players who don`t know about this bug and who dont use it because of that.

You can be considered as a "happy buguser" who doesn`t want to give up on his exploited achievement.

However i do think the normal resistances do work pretty well, even without exceeding the given values. I do have a normal set of jewels for pvp and i think they are more than enough. I have also seen those over resistance jewels in action and my opinion is that this bug makes it pointless to use magic against a target with such high resistances.

And yes, im not the only one who thinks like that.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Auriga (1 decade ago)

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