IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Disagree all you want but I have got a set in 1 day.
Pei is easy once you know how to do him successfully. If you look before the server merge TI had a set for everyone of their members and a huge amounts of sets spare. Also towards the end MoP had at least 15 sets which with help we got in about 2/3weeks

If people are competitively PvPing there is no issue with it. If taking turns to kill each other isn't illegal then quite simply it should and if these ideas come to light it will be.
Somtimes? I can tell you every tactic to kill every single mob quite easily with a team of masters. However can i tell you how to kill a team of PvPers? No- you have to respond to what they are doing and think on your feet. AI mobs dont require much thought or attention- its just get a tank, healers and nukers and then just button spam. Nothing challenging compared to PvP.

I never said it would be tolerated. In fact if you look i said as if it would ever happen. As bittymacod (who was arguing against PvP rewards) said:
"In the real world you don't do it freelance. You are hired, or employed, or serve. Someone else provides your weapons, your food and (to a certain extent) your targets. You are totally dependent on those arms crafters, development engineers, even farmers if you want to think about it that way. One of the reasons I like Ryzom is the reality connection, however fragile it may be since this is a game and all."

Well for this to be true PvPers should get gear from killing others- would you rather have it in the form of PvP point rewards or for looting? Of course everyone would choose PvP rewards unless anyone else has other ideas.

I did not contradict. It means that 8 other players waived their share. And as to Pei-Ruz being so easy, how often did you take on him lately? And why is the server not flooded with Pei armor recently if it is so easy while Dante is so overbooked that some players are not ashamed to rush in and steal the click when a full team is just about to enter?

We agree that cheating is not allowed, that was not the point. On the other hand, it is not cheating to readjust the chances by adding some handicap when one sees that one side is systematically superior. Uneven chances make competition boring for the victor and frustrating for the defeated. And having PvP points in mind when arranging fights is not cheating either, they are here to encourage consensual PvP.

Yes, sometimes, not always. I watched lots of PvP fights which were no more than common brawl or ganking, stupid and predictable. I took part in OP fights which were incredibly boring due to overwhelming superiority of one side. And the race for uber gear also is predictable and not particularly interesting. When I as a neutral have to cross the more interesting regions of the rootball I encounter more challenge than that from mobs and environment. No doubt that PvP can be interesting and challenging, yet the constant call for more reward and incentive does not impressively demonstrate its attractivity. (Edit: get me right, I do not say that PvP cannot be fun, challenging, and interesting, I much appreciate and respect your enthusiasm under that respect. But PvE is more than just killing mobs, please respect that, too, and the ecology of interacting AI in ryzom is no less complex than what players can arrange among themselves).

I don't see that the one or the other follows from Bittty's quote. His point was that any homin in Atys no less than people in societies based on division of labor depends on the contribution of others thus a warrior should be no more autarkic than any other. (As an aside: In human history there was one major war based on armies waiving logistics and living off the country by looting, the 30years war 1618-48, it left the theatre of operations with roughly half the prewar populace and wide desert like areas).

The world of Atys is based on production (be it by foraging, hunting or crafting), services (among them armed protection), and exchange. I do not see that any category of players should be exempt. Faction points are fine as an incentive and a means of identifying with the own faction, would they lead to self-sufficiency outside that system it would break the game.

"Not true" is a contradiction. I have been unable to play since Christmas as my uni has blocked ryzom :(

I'm afraid if you want to amass a lot of PvP points "common brawls/gankings" aren't going to be the way to do that. You will need full blown PvP fights- and a lot of them.

His point was that "One of the reasons I like Ryzom is the reality connection, however fragile it may be since this is a game and all." My point following on from that is killing people gets you rewards- in real life you get loot. Ryzom has its "rewards" which are PvP points apart from the fact there is nothing to spend them on.

You are worried this implementation will break crafting. This will not happen. Even before the merge when NPC armors were abundant the demand for crafting was massive. I had NPC LA and HA and even boosted gear- did I use them all the time? Of course not! You save them for special occasions- as people would with this PvP gear. 99% of the time I used crafted gear despite the fact I owned tons of NPC gear.

The world of ryzom is a sandbox game- a "do what you want" game. There is NPC gear for PvE that doesn't require crafting- why is there such an outrage when PvP gear is suggested?

More reward? Like there is enough of them and PvPers want even more. To ask for even more rewards there must be equal amount of them in the first place with stats being on par with PvE rewards. There is not. I'm not talking about new additional content, i'm talking about the old content that was there for years and still remain unfinished. Because i consider one skirt and pretty short range of other items as unfinished content compared to what the PvE side of the game has to offer. It's like there were all sorts of materials available for harvesting above the ground, but only pilan oil having supreme grade available in PR. That would be logical to ask for other materials also having supreme grade, otherwise it feels like huge chunk of content is missing. Either implement supreme grade for all materials, or don't implement it at all. Do the work properly or don't even start it. PvP shop rewards are unfinished work. I never had any respect for unfinished work. 

Crafters being put out of business is a nonsense. There is a lot of people not interested in PvP they could work for, there is constant stream of newcomers in game that need new gear every ten levels or so, there is always demand for grind gear, as i doubt PvP players would go to kill mobs for xp in their hard-earned PvP gear, unless they got it via farming points during some pre-arranged events.

 

 

Virg, What about this solution?

(and please no one else tell me that this is never going to happen or that it's going to be hard to implement or any of that i really just want to know, IF it were possible would anyone like the idea)

would you be satisfied if this armor was ONLY usable for pvp? not named not grind ONLY pvp? it would cater for the pvp'er and it would not unbalance the rest of the game. taking it a step further let me include D's comment. this is not guild wars where the PVP section is separated and you start out with PVP top end gear.... but what if it was.

Suppose for the sake of theory that we had something where atys analyses your levels and pairs you up with potential opponents of similar strength, even lets you pick who you want and if they agree you go at it (with an option to show your stats if you want, or not) the system then gives you a spread of gear to pick from... maybe it randomises some and has some standard ones, maybe you can have 2 sections , where you bring your own gear or go with the system's gear....you duke it out, both get some pvp points....

But as i said the catch is this... your pvp points could ONLY buy pvp gear, that is ONLY for pvp...i mean suppose you dont want to grind on 2000 najabs anyway so what does it matter if its only for pvp? there are a lot of incentives to something like this.

0) it would not harm dig and craft at all in fact it might enhance it if you have the option to bring your own gear or use provided gear... crafter can make a name for themselves that way, in fact why not have the system ask you, are you using your own gear?- yes. (system checks crafter's name) (crafter gets a share of the pvp-points)

1) it would encourage people who like to dig and craft to try pvp, because it's not the idea of, omg i just sat there for 4 days trying to pop sup something to FINALLY make this ONE armor set... eh im not going to use it much cause i dont want to do that again often.

2) it would avoid that problem of, omg you love to pvp but you hate dig and craft but you want MY sups for YOUR gear? do it yourself. this kind of thinking is pretty harmful but it can happen even between great friends, if you had a bad enough time in roots or you camped for hours on npc bosses and someone who never did one wants to use the spoils.

3) it would not unbalance levels of combat, since, we all can agree crafting and digging are a big part of atys, and we can probably agree that its never going to go out of style even if more "uber" gears are created (if only because you wont drive your fragile Ferrari through a swap-pit before you try a durable truck).

meaning, if you DID get some really cool gear from pvp that was NOT pvp-only, you wont use it to grind anyway. you admitted that yourself V, so, it wouldn't be a problem if it was pvp-only. there would be no- hey i dont get to use this to kill 2000 najabs with this! (because you'd probably just use a max smash grind set instead...)


so my bottom line is, if there's only one skirt add more, if there's 2/4 lands make it 4/4 sure that won't unbalance anything. and if you are going to invent a new Ferrari, that we can trade and use for PVE... even if it was overpowered way better than sup dig or mob mats...then don't make it so durable. but to avoid a lot of conflict, why not just make these things pvp-only?

PVP only armour sounds great. For use during OP wars, duels and tagged pvp. Could make it so if you try to use the gear against anything other than a homin it auto unequips like when trying to hit someone with a pic. This wouldnt break the crafting system and could allow for even better and more gear. Those who dont like PVP can complain somewhere else as it would only affect PVP and nothing else.

Brilliant idea.

Also just as some people who talking about how we are calling for more "rewards" for PvP. As tumbleweed said there is only 1 reward currently.

It seems that rewards for digging are still being implemented (for example the kami/kara points for temple reconstruction). Although they dont currently have anything to spend them on I am willing to bet kami/kara rewards will be implemented before PvP point rewards are finished.

The dig/crafters who oppose pvp so much are only killing the game they love so much. People will always need crafting done. No reason to worry about not being useful or having something to do. Why cry out so against PvP? Do you have any idea how many people have quit this game because there is no real PvP here? 1000's of people who got masters and then decided there really wasn't anything worth doing with them. I'd say that out weighs the 20 people that would quit if they made changes to the pvp system. WAKE UP. This game is dead by end of the year and all you love will be gone if you can't be more open to PvP.

Just take a look around. The amount of people still playing since the merge has gone down drastically. Going to be hard to craft when you can't log in because they shut the sever down:P

Was really hoping a GM or dev would comment on this post- want to know what they think of it.

The lack of PVP is killing this game for me and so many others- just look at how many marauders came to the OP war- many ive never seen before.

PVP is a key thing especially in a sandbox game where you are meant to be able to do anything you want.

Please make more PVP rewards or "PVP only items" or at least tell me why not.

Hi!

How about a new pvp area? When you get there you can't equip anything at all. (or can't take anything with you? whatever is easier to code)

You have a merchant there, at the respawn/tp, that sells basic quality items: weapons, amps, armor... All of the items have the stats as if they were crafted with "fine generic raw materials". These are the only items you can equip there.

These new "refugee" items are worthless outside this area, so nobody will cry fool.

But, as they are the only ones you can wear, they're the ultimate pvp weapon there :D

This would make battles depend more on the skills and less on the equipment.

My 2 cents... Have fun,
Nuno

Nuno, as usual your 2 cents is work a quarter.

Virg --

I think it is very unlikely that a dev or CSR would comment on this thread since they can't get any positive result by doing so. If they comment positively, the next demand will be "When?". If they comment negatively, the next thing will be "Why not?".

We know from the past that the developers and support staff read these forums and that sometimes, months or years later, we see results.

As for the OP battles, you may be right that the Marauders came out in force for the last set of them, but how many Marauders are actually hard-core PvP players and how many just saw an opportunity for one of their own to take an OP? I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that not all Marauders are in it for the PvP, just as not all non-Marauders dislike PvP. I think the role-play and PvP attitude lines are pretty much skew to each other.

Nuno --

I love the idea, but there is really nothing now that would keep the PvP players from occupying the Arena and holding games under the same restrictions. I've wondered for some time why there isn't a PvP post in the Forums keeping track of PvP matches(single, double, four-homin team, full kit, basic kit, naked) with records of wins, losses, etc.

With a little work on the part of the PvP players they could set up betting pools for the season, side-bets on individual matches. Homins not interested in PvP otherwise might get involved in the gaming aspect of it, both as part of the game and as part of roleplay. (I would hope that any Fyros Patriot would support an honorable Fyros warrior who is showing his/her skill in fair combat!)

That doesn't answer the question of "should there be more in-game reward for PvP activities," but it would certainly show the devs and CSRs that there was a lot of interest in it.

-- just my thoughts -- I leave the details to those interested.

Nuno I like the idea- however getting specific gear to suit your playing style is one of the great things I enjoy about pvp.

Bitty- what is the issue with me wanting to know when this might happen? or why this wont happen? am i wasting my time continuing to post on this thread?

Every single marauder I know loves to PvP and it always up for PvP- hence they are tagged. I was even told if I wanted a fight it was easier to go attack one of them instead of asking- sounds to me like they are in it for the PvP.

The step up from PvE to proper PvP is a huge step- and many are unable to comprehend the tatics used in PvP. I try on a personal level to teach people these tatics- Elvanae had an idea there could be something on silian similar to the 4 trainers as an incentive and to teach the more advance tatics used.

The reason why there isnt forums keeping track of PvP matches is because whats the point? Betting pools and etc seem a little far fetched and issues with fixing a fight etc etc. There is a tournament apparently being planned however currently the PvP system does not have anything to it- in a game that is driven by reward-basis and level grinding. If this were to change I believe PvP might finally find itself a place in ryzom.

In the arena you can't be sure about your opponent's equipment.

Think of the "fine heavy armor of durability" as the "tribe commander HA". They are the same.

The NPC HA imposes +4 parry... well... The fine HA imposes -1. I don't see a difference :-)

Have fun,
Nuno

Nuno --
Actually there are ways that one can be sure once the people are in the center of the arena. One woujld be to have the referee check a time-stamped screenshot of their inventory and equipment. The timestamp would have to be after they had come to the center of the arena out of trading range with any partner.

Also it would be perfectly possible to have combats where "bring your best equipment" is the rule, or "Naked except for jewels" or whatever.

On the other hand, if PvP means that you cannot trust your opponent in a fair fight, then I *REALLY* want no part in it. I would also hold that if your skill in PvP is totally dependent on your equipment, that there is very little skill there.

Virg -- the issue is that the Devs *never* give out timelines more than a few weeks in the future. Period. So there's no point in asking for that kind of commitment, and if they say that they are looking into it, then there will be an immediate call for a schedule and irritation when it isn't met. As I said, I see no upside for the devs in commenting in this thread. I did not say that the thread was useless; in fact I implied the opposite.

((As for "every single marauder I know..." -- well there's a certain amount of potential for "selection bias" there, but I'll grant that many marauders are in it for the PvP.))

The main point of my suggestion was for the "PvP community" to bring their passion to the attention of the rest of Atys in a way that was *NOT* related to looking for more "game rewards".