IDEAS FOR RYZOM

just to add to one poster's reply there.... i've been trying to get people to trade me loot mats for dig and honestly the suggestion is open, i did not specify a 1:1 ratio or anything.... still almost no one has said yes :P

a few have, thanks to you though :)

http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/16378/1# 1

digging sups in PR is tedious for many reasons MANY reasons... and training all my combat up too to hunt with others will take some time, it is hard to do everything at once, at the moment i am engaged in recipe hunting and jewel master efforts,

if you could buy things way better than what i can get digging, with pvp points, i will happily give up digging

i am not saying this is the meaning of the poster but... i am all for content, of any kind , for any type of player... just be mindful that digging and crafting are a lot of work and they should have good rewards.

i do not enjoy sitting for hours waiting on sups hitting the track/pop button, but i do play the advantages. make use of everything that you can, ryzom has a lot of down sides, if you can do something for your advantage without stepping on someone else i say do it

i can dig my sups train my skills fight bosses and pvp all in one, it will take some time but it is the logical progression of atys. you cannot simply be "oh i love pvp lets go!!" logically you will be at an advantage if you dig+craft, level combat, and hunt, then pvp. no one likes waiting 9 hours on sups.

no one likes camping a boss all day. no one likes spending ages digging for 0 exp just to get mats to master crafts then, when crafting high end mats getting degrades or fails.

as a community we can choose to split these burdens with friends, teams, guilds, or we can compete and make things harder for others to get them while hoarding our own... both are valid choices, but if you need something hell i can find it :) for a fair trade

if pvp points can buy me advantageous things i will do it in some sort of fun way with people i like and not step on anyone else, i have never seen the pvp merchant yet because i am not ready to participate given my agenda for dig/craft/recipes taking priority over ele/melee/heals but i, like you, will support new balanced content for pvp points

cheers

Daomei > I assume some misunderstanding occured. Basically, all you want is removal of "no trade" attribute from PvP items, therefore making them less exclusive? I see no problems with it. Besides, marauder items are already can be traded, as i heard.

What i'm firmly against though is getting PvP points with farming missions or NPC's. 

As for issues with adding more items to PvP vendors. Jewels, generic mats, ammo and consumables should be relatively easy to implement. They need no models, only new icons and some coding being done. Now, weapons. As much as i'd love to see new designs, i understand that dev team may have troubles with modelling. They could use models taken from OP weapons. Duk-weapons for kamis, jen-weapons for karas and generic weapons for marauders. They did that already with post-merge refugees weapons. Refugee axe has model of tekorn one and refugee magic stick has model of tekorn staff. All that would have to be done is removing of vedice or tekorn bonus from them and adjusting stats. The only real problem is new armors.

This is considered a bug. Marauder items are removed from non-marauder toons upon request. Don't waste your PvP points on that :)

I fail to see how people can disagree PvP should be rewarded. It seems many people are driven to think this because they don't like it. I believe every skill on this game should have an equal reward for the time and effort that is put into it and this should be linked closely to real life.

Obviously the game designers agree that PvP should have its rewards otherwise PvP points would never have been implemented. Now we just need something worthwhile to spend them on. An odd skirt is no use to anyone and definitely overpriced for its stats at 42k (max points from a kill i believe is 320 and you can only get them from the same player every 5 minutes). This means at least 130 kills at its lowest, but probably over 260 for most players. This would take a huge amount of hours to do.

If you look at a PvE equivalent of getting decent armor look at dante. You kill him once, this takes 15-30minutes and isn't difficult and dante armor is better than the kami PvP skirt. (You may argue that the skirt is better but you don't wear LA for protection- you wear it for dodging/parrying and its 0 malus).

I wonder whats harder to get? Obviously the kami skirt with the poorer stats- this doesnt make sense. Oh and if anyone wants to argue the point that killing someone 260 times is easy lets not forget the people who would be open for fighting are the PvPers themselves and if you believe that to be an easy task come at me bro- i'll kill you in my tighty whities.

ps.
Get the casino up and running :D

Virg, what you write about Dante is simply not true. Sure one can kill Dante, where 15 minutes would be an excellent time, or die in the attempt, yet most times you might prevail. But Dante is spawning every 20hrs to 4 days only, like every mob boss. And you get exactly one piece of armour per Dante kill. That means that you need 45 runs with a full team until everybody has - theoretically - a full set of armor. It may even happen that you end up with excess boots, sleeves etc. and have to continue or look for an opportunity to barter.

Assuming Dante is appearing every day there will be 360 possible encounters per year resulting in 8 full sets of armour per team. Not a lot if you ask me, and it may even be less as one respawn per day seems overstated to me, probably bit less than a respawn every 2 days. That would mean 4 armor sets per team and year. Now consider that they do not last forever, there won't be a large stock.

Btw., I agree that PvP should have its faction point reward, and I agree to Tumbleweed's point that the faction store should contain the generic mats and other items it had before the fusion. Maybe the amount of points per kill could be adapted. Yet I do not see a real problem in finding some factional adversary and arranging training fights where imbalance may be adjusted by some handicap (less armor or so) to the stronger until one has some balance in kills. Then a good fight without heal may last a minute or two, 150-300 kills still being some grind, but not an impossible mission, definitely faster than getting one piece of PvP armor of Dante armor, and not a comparable challenge.

I never said it wouldn't take a while to acquire a set- I got 5 in a year or so before the merge. I said if you look at the equivalent of getting a single dante piece compared to the single kami/kara/maruder skirt that the dante piece is easier to get.

Also I didn't mention a team in terms of the odds because PvP points is exactly the same. Sure you can hide in the middle of the marauder camp and gank them when they walk in- but then 10 more port in at which point you need a team also- which reduces the points you get.

Usually the 2v2 fights I have last at least 5 minutes if not a lot more and if you want to even start killing tagged people you need to be with someone experienced or have good experience yourself.

I still stand firm in that dante is a lot easier to get than a PvP skirt- and has much better stats.

This is 100% true, and Pei-Ruz is even easier.

yep pei ruz you can get a ridiculous amount of sets in such a short space of time.

and

Virg, I am still waiting for a proper response to my concern from you or anyone else.
I am not opposed to any new impelemtation of PvP fun, it's just my concern of how it will affect crafting.
So far you only wailed that anyone who is not shouting "yes you are brilliant" (see your first post) is "totally against PvP and doesn't know much at all" (summary of other posts).

All I would like to see is some comparison to crafted goods... amount of time and material required to match your demand you ask for in stats of armour.

You do not like digging/crafting, but please also consider players who do not like NPC boss and PvP farming! And I still believe that your request of easier purchase of PvP gear is overpowering the existing crafing system.

Probably Casy can shed some light on it if you can't.

Thanks

Yes I consider dante and pei easy enough now- but I loved them to death when i first started doing them and still enjoy them currently.

I personally don't think the new ideas would affect crafting at all. NPC bosses aren't a new thing- they have been around for at least 2 years and crafting is still in high demand- the game couldn't function without crafters. I do not believe 2 additional LA NPC bosses will change that.

As for the idea of PvP reward gear- The stats I would like would differ on the price of the item.

For example you could have kami/kara/maru gear at 20k a piece with the current stats it already has. You could also have kami/kara/maru gear with stats equal to the reckless LA for a price of 30k. I do not for one second believe this would mean everyone would drop their pics and go running for an axe however it might get more people to try PvP.

These stats are above what can be normally crafted, but I consider the effort and skill level that has to be put in to obtain them worth the reward. Being good at PvP requires a mix of the right tatics, skills and being able to react to situation at hand- I personally believe it to be the most demanding thing that ryzom has to offer.

To get a full set of the kami/kara/maru armor would require 150k PvP points. If you were to get max points per kill (which hardly ever happens) this means killing 469 people for a full set of armor which I actually believe is a bit too much.

So in short I dont think this introduction of more PvP rewards will affect crafting. Hope I answered your question?

EDIT 1: In terms of a time scale of acquiring points- A friend of mine who has been PvPing since the new year only has around 30k PvP points.

Ok, the argument is not that they are too hard. Pei-Ruz is clearly harder than Dante yet spawning more often. Anyway both have spawn limits, and the point of that obviously is not to flood the planet with armours far above that what may be crafted. And that is not the case at the moment. Getting a full set of marauder LA does clearly take more than "a ridiculous amount of time". Anyway, I am not against 2 or so new NPC bosses, one for MA would be great.


I do not understand why you are so shy about math and numbers. The stats of Dante/Pei LA have been mentioned, I mentioned, in addition, those of the current generic PvP skirt which are - except the dodge 2 - even better than those of Dante/Pei. As a neutral, I cannot see the Kami/Kara PvP shop stuff because it throws a PHP error on access, but I assume they are similar to the generic PvP skirt (would be kind to name them).

As to doing 469 pvp kills: I did thousands, probably far above ten thousand of Najab, Horncher, Cuttler, Jugula, and Kincher kills (247-255 lvls) for my ridiculous four masters in magic and melee. It took some time, but not endless (crafting masters are definitely harder due to the digging requirements). And it seems to be steadily avoided to comment on the possibility of arranged PvP fights, of PvP point grind. So far there was no point to do so, as long as no PvP merchant did exist. If it were possible to get a full set of overboosted armor by it, it would take some 10-20hrs to do the 500 kills for. And that would have no limit. Everybody and my cat could arrange such grind, and would probably do it. The step to finally kill crafting would be implementing PvP shop HA and weaponry similar to the recent LA piece.

Getting the mats for a "normal" parry 2 optimal heavy armor takes weeks of boss hunting and sup digging, even longer for a white one. The mats for a dodge 2 widely optimal LA are easier to get, and fairly good ones can be crafted from excellent mat as long as they do not have to be black. The latter do require fairly much sup material (though mainly foraged stuff), easy access to overpowered LA would render them widely worthless. Due to the relatively fast wearoff of light armor that would not completely kill the demand for crafting, but harm the incentive to find out tricky recipes for optimal items.

Edit: As already mentioned, I would like the idea of faction skins for all kinds of armour, making them usable only for faction members while freely distributable (don't know how hard this is to implement). The idea would be some faction item, similar to op mat or maro craft crystal being part of a crafting plan and being buyable by PvP points (should not be too expensive). Then, any crafter given that item and having learnt the plan could craft faction armour. This would give factions stuff for identification and would not break the crafting system.

Right another thought about the subject of uber gear and its impact on PvP: Some older players told me that their incentive to do pvp was severely damaged by the detection of "PvP jewelry" (which in fact is a bug exploit allowing extreme resistance (300 or more afaik) in all 5 eco categories. Elementary magic in PvP was severely maimed that way as I was told, and several players quit PvP therefore.

Btw. a fix for the "PvP jewelry" bug has been developped and communicated to the devs roughly a year ago, as far as I am informed, might be a good idea to implement it.

Because this has been forbidden. It is NOT allowed to farm pvp points. Although i doubt anyone but marauders will be punished for it.

You can get a full set of pei ruz in a day... This has the opportunity to flood the market with armors far above what may be crafted but it hasn't.

Killing najabs is easy. Killing other PvP players isn't so easy. As casy has pointed out the "grind" you are referring to is illegal and I should expect your armor would be stripped off you- great way to waste 20hours.

Ask yourself how long it would take to kill469 maruders? Bear in mind you may gank one but more spawn in- which means you need a team also. Then you and your team have to be effective in your tatics enough to kill them in the first place. This isn't 469 mobs which just keel over a die after a few nukes.

Once again reverting back to crafters. If you are so keen on every single item coming from crafters let PvPers loot the people they killed- that will increase the demand for crafted items once all our bags are nicely stocked up with your items. (As if that would happen- but that is the only other alternative to a bit of independence- what would you rather have?)