English

lol nae why did you not tell your fellow HO :P

truthfully it was very annoying and almost stressful at first not having enough to even TP easily to res dead homins but there is a great bias toward high level crafting

lets be frank - some people do not like digging and hence they wont craft anyway, for these players they will suffer greatly even with the forum post about how to do the other types of missions, the rewards are bad and it does not really train skills as much

i hated it at first but i picked one craft that most overseers ask for (shields, but jewels are always there too it seems) dug crafted, got high enough now to the point where when i need some i can do one or two high level missions and be content. there is almost nothing to buy (this is changing thankfully, players are using the sell-to-others feature more now)

i have found that if you try NOT to think about missions and just see them as a one-off sort of nuisance instead of a real addition to gameplay (they are NOT a real addition says i... they may force you to dig and craft and get levels and it may be beneficial to you to say this is a "motivation" but it is still forced, by the current system) then one can concentrate on perhaps other grinding or relations, or even the odd boss or two (personally i am dont subscribe to the boss or sup mat "must have" way of life on atys, so i cant imagine what it must be like having less to go around, with bugs to boot)

iirc your craft is higher than mine in some branches :P

sup and boss mats are supposed to be rare, i have to agree with daomei on this. perhaps the frequency of regeneration of each could be boosted somewhat, to satisfy the player populace who enjoy these things but rare does not necessarily mean impossible, if you consider that the new server has only been around a few months, in 8 more years everyone will be fully decked out anyway, the economy is going back to what it was, some homins have what they need and are now accumulating surplus dappers because there is nothing substantial for dapper sink besides perhaps OPs

a big part of the perceived issue is that many players are used to having sup boss npc related items and lots of extra cash from before the merge, i do not know what it feels like to have these things since i am still very new, so i cant empathise. there are some people who have quit but if they return in some months or years it is likely at that time that items mats and dappers would be alot easier to get after the server settles in, until they invent something to spend them on dappers are still fairly useless, once you have your meks apt gh tp money, donation money... then thats it besides ops

when you hit your first 10m you'll feel comfortable enough, i guarantee it

at that point THEN you can say, okay there isn't that much to do because there is not that much new content, it does seem to be appearing slowly. new horizons was a great change for neutrals especially and low levels, this is still an important part of the player base, even if some people are "cheating" for the new horizons dapper rewards with occs now, the honest players do benefit

pretty soon when everyone has surplus prices will either go up from players selling good gear, or more gifting will occur because of surplus and no need for dappers OR my preferred hope - both will happen. personally i enjoy gifting as much as shopping, i have received alot of hateful comments about being evil for supporting market economy but i think this is just one choice of many which does not intrude on the choice of gifting

we will just have to hope that bugs are fixed soon and that new content is on the way, and perhaps some alternative ways to make dappers, more choices never hurt. more choices means more players who play differently. atys has a fairly high tolerance for different playstyles but i have also been told that people who hate digging shouldnt be on here- i have to disagree, you should not have to dig if you don't want to. in fact. no one really has to it is just that it is more difficult to get by. and for anyone saying that dappers be abolished entirely, for there are some of you out there, i really do not know what to say. systems exist, what we make of them is up to us, let's find some ways to make the experience a good one

take advantage of dapper missions, use them as a reason to level dig and craft
take advantage of digging even if you hate it, see it as a way to get the most out of your stay on atys
take advantage of new horizons use them as a reason to see new lands
take advantage of the sell-to-others people will buy your items i do it all day, if it is a good item

if lack of bosses and sups starts driving you crazy either maybe go do something else or and get by on exe or choice gear till later. choice gear can be fantastic for grinding =/ but so many seem not to think so and this is again, because so many are used to having better pre-merge.

and. if you cant find something to do that you enjoy, perhaps think of something you might like to see and either suggest it or attempt to implement it. at the core of it i do believe that some people have already "done it all" and are trying hard to "get back" what they had before, and are lacking high level new content to keep them at bay

Please ..... no no no.....

The idea of logging on to do the same missions over and over and over again is not my idea of a good time. It is absolutely ridiculous that I can get a quarter million dapper doing an mission for an overseer who will pay more for 6 junk vests than a player can afford to pay for a full set of HA. I don't want a daily routine:

1. Log on do my round of occs.
2. Do my round of overseer missions.
.....

Might as well punch into a job on an assembly line where my job is to stick the same part in the same widget hour after hour every day.

Also the conclusions drawn about pre-merge conditions by peeps who admit they weren't there, let me say this. It took me 4.5 years to collect my NPC plans. These were by no means "abundant". In the course of my time since getting those plans I was able to manage a whopping two crafts of NPC sets.

pre merge i was a silan toon, keep that in mind that i played a toon into the high 40's in all skills but ranged (no ranged weps in silan), there i was a millionare, took me a year to do that there, but that was my choice, everyone told me it's so much simpler to make the dappers on the ML, i go to ML weeks befor merge, no point in making dappers there but did so anyway just to see, it wasn't bad, and my crafted stuff while under q60 always sold well, then we merge, and poof those ok to make dappers are gone, almost nothing i sell get's bought, even when i only mark up 200% i get nothing, pre-merge i could sell crap at 9999% all the time becasue everyone had and could make dappers easy, now it's a joke to get dap's, i'm with freddy, the game's getting too much like a job, i don't mind a little work, but keep it fun and give us options, right now we're locked in to only a very few ways to make good dappers for low lvl toons, guess the ryzom econ is alot like real life, work your A#$ off and get near nothing.

i do agree that i hate logging on to do the dapper mission but the system is broken, you have to currently go out of your way from normal play to make that quarter million, and you have to craft at a high level to do it comfortably im hoping to see some alternatives

i havent done a mission in days and it feels very nice to not do them but eventually i will hit zero again and have to do some, there's really no way around it when npc-selling is 27 dappers a piece and q130 missions are 118k

dappers are now a chore, an aside, an annoyance, for me personally but i havent been able to break all my 1k hawker tools so i dont need that many, after meks and apt, just for tp money and some minor shopping if break a jool or ten.

1 day every week or two weeks i go crazy tping around doing dapper missions then stop for week or two weeks, that has been my routine

I find the new economy to be pretty much just a re-hash of the old.. and I don't think there will be a solution possible. Those that want to accumulate millions of dappers will find a way to do so, no matter how things are re-tooled.

One advantage of the craft missions is that they boost your civilization fame at the same time.

One notable lack in the system (which has always been there to my knowledge), is that there are only rewards now for people that craft armor, melee weapons, jewels, shields or armor.

As primarily an amp crafter, there's a complete lack of reward for pursuing that craft, which should be addressed if this the intended way to work both our craft levels and our bank accounts.

As others have mentioned, there is a lack of reward in missions for those who primarily hunt or fight bandits, etc.

The sergeants/corporals pay substantially better, and I can manage to make about 600K in a few hours of play doing those in a few zones as well, so the economy is exactly the same for high levels..

Sad that I have to reply to myself to enter a few more characters (heh).

Bottom line however is that the economy ends up being about the same as it was 3 years ago. Level up and you will be able to accumulate funds to donate to new players, or help your guildmates out with, etc.

I don't see any change really worth pursuing to 'fix' what is not really the biggest problem in the first place..

I'd rather see future development focused on things that would improve the experience of the game - how about fixing Knoll of Dissent? It's been 'broken' for at least 7 years now, spells still are all area of effect spells there, and I'm sure there's no logical reason for why that should be (none was ever given in lore as to why that would be, nor is the region special in any other way that should make this the case). Now that we have a larger player base under one server, why not open up a few of the other outposts, or some in the Prime Roots? Or implement spires?

+1 Minou, Esp. about lack of missions for amp crafters. I also think there should be better missions for hunters, or those who dont like to do crafting.
Not sure which KoD you were refering to, or what particularly. Do you mean Hidden Source? Or Nexus? Or the KoD in the Jungle?

It is knoll of dissent, where offensive magic has AoE effect. Often annoyed some mektoubs when hitting torbaks.

What puzzles me about the hunters' complaints: I am making a good 30-100k dappers extra income by looting the mobs annoying me on my normal ways (never did b4 the fusion) and place the mat in the merchants at 1000-2000% meaning sthg between 200 and 700 per mat. That stuff is all resold almost immediately.

There is no way to yield mat faster than hunting. Complaints that this mat is only 17dap/mat when sold to merchant are strange. That may easily be 170-400 when put on resale.

I somewhat understand the rants. But guys, the world is as it is. The hardest thing for me was losing all my occupations' skills. Regaining them indeed created a daily chore. But so what?

I have tried this 1000-2000% thing recently and i admit it does work, the tiers for dapper missions from crafting go about 200 400 800 1000 dappers per mat at various cutoffs most notably q130 130/160 160/180 140/150 are all the 700-800 dapper per mat range,

this said, if you can get 200-400 selling loot mats to others it does work out

perhaps dig mats can be sold too at those markups im sure someone's going to dig/dapper and buy mats to craft but personally i craft whatver i dig

i think when my laptop is fixed i will attempt to not do any dapper missions at all for 1 week and see if i can get by on loot mats, will be interesting to keep a comparison

perhaps 1 week of just corporal/etc missions and delivery missions

but the craft missions give incentive to dig and craft and raise fame as noted, slowly but surely 1 fame every 3-4 missions i estimate. i suppose huntnig would raise combat but grinding without stopping to sell mats seems to be more beneficial

ill see if i can make 800 dpm comparable in 2hrs

I'm liking that resale is more active. The fundamental problem I'm seeing is really rooted in adding to the grind without adding to the fun.

On a good day Ryzom is a major grind. There's just not much else to do besides grind some skill/occupation/dappers/gear. The recent changes in the economy added to that grind...essentially forcing people to turn to missions to make dappers to pay for TPs and such. Boss hunts are few and far between unless you're one of the guilds that has them all camped. Increasing the respawn rate will just get those guilds more sup mats. Digging is just another grind. Trekking is fun when someone actually needs to trek.

We're adding jobs, different things to grind, difficulty without getting much pure fun to balance things out. The economy will sort itself out. Grind gives a little longevity to the gameplay. Hopefully the event teams and/or an incredibly creative dev team can come up with something to balance all the new grind with some fun though.

I love the new market that has evolved. For the first time in my ryzom life i am putting stuff (mob loot, occ products) up for resale and get something that i actually need. I don't like grind digging very much and in the beginning when i had to do some i didn't like it too much. But now i can live from what i put up for resale!

I understand the problems of low level and new players who got a hard time getting the dappers to buy tps. Low level mission rewards should be reworked (or teleports made cheap for low-level players).

Teleports are cheap.  The problem is that a low level digger or hunter isn't producing mats that anyone wants to buy, so even if they put them up with a low markup they don't sell.  Heck, even when I put q250 up at a 200% markup it doesn't sell, at least most of it doesn't.

overseer npcs take those undesirable mats and make them into dappers now, who really wants basic redhot sap of q170? the thesos master overseer does! at a rate of about 800 dappers per mat, no one would pay that normally (well i do not really know... i would not when an exe 250 mat is 5k)

i think casy may mean also that lower level players do not have the q170 craft ability to make that 90k reward so they have to do those really crappy 2k-10k missions which, lets face it - are just recycling, repetitive and unfun, no point in doing the same mission again just to buy tps

so dareth has hit upon a great point, the punitive changes that are very "job like" and making you "work for it" have sucked some fun out of atys, combined with things just not working the way they are supposed to, exacerbates the unfun-ness

i am at a loss for how to balance this but have been trying to create some content of my own to keep from feeling tied down to the system. while we wait for pr mats to be fixed and tracking stanzas to work, or possible increase in spawn rates, or even small adjustments of rewards to make low level missions more worth doing, we have to keep each other from wanting to shoot self in foot and unsub from all the unfun

grab your friends and find something you can enjoy or apply to the script-writing team or edit the wiki, make some articles like the ryzom compendium leader has been doing... i think i will try that one too

one of my pet projects is individual emails/tells to crafters for their nice work in the shops lately and requesting or suggesting certain things be added to make up for missing items (ahem, we are still severely short on q250 hp jewels, focus jewels are aplenty but not hp but hey if this is not true anymore ignore that!)

adopt a newbie, make a guild, keep a recipe book in hard-copy. i don't want to watch anyone leave so i try to find out what will keep people here, would not want to see any more of my friends leave