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it's a game to start with, and it was once fun, i don't much enjoy always wondering how many hours, days, weeks, it will take me to make the dappers to buy something good, a packer, (mounts are sick cheep, but you can only have one) an apartment, ect, it'll take me a month to make those kinds of dappers now, and i sure don't want to think about how long it would take to do it with a new toon from silan, even if it had all the missions done, it would still not last long, and it's not easy to buy good items from high lvl crafters, they want a king's ransom for them. there needs to be a way to make good dappers for the low level toon, so all in favor of more dappers per lame mission say +1 lolx. let me make 10 to 50,000 for killing say 20 baddies for a mission, so the money will add up

If everyone has less dappers than before, then crafters would have to sell cheaper than before, no?
If they manage to sell for as much as before, then there has to be a way to get the dappers... If everybody is broke, then they won't have many customers and will have to lower prices... I don't understand?

It used to be good to just explore the landscape, killing and looting what mobs got in your way and selling the mats to the nearest Hawker to earn dappers for TPs etc., maybe doing the occasional digging and crafting. I played that way most of the time, with the goal of collecting all TPs (I got all but one before the Wipe). This way of playing is now impossible.

In the old economy, dappers were largely irrelevant to most players and missions that gave dappers were ignored. Now with the new economy those missions are very relevant and a player will earn more dappers for missions in the more dangerous regions. This enables players of all levels to earn dappers, however having done this for a while, the same missions over and over, it is getting boring.

Those players who do not like to play this way, e.g. explorers & hunters, now find their way of playing the game does not work. Foraged and looted Mats used to be worth gathering to sell, but prices are now so low this is pointless. The emphasis has shifted to using mats to craft armour, weapons etc. and selling those.

This means that unless you enjoy crafting you are going to struggle to earn enough dappers to pay for TPs, let alone anything else.

So for the Exploreres and Hunters among us, there needs to be a payday that fits that style of play. It needs to be available to players of all levels. The obvious existing mechanism is killing bandits. This is already used to get dappers (and fame, although I don't understand why you don't get more fame for killing higher level bandits).

If Bandits dropped armour and weapons, appropriate to their level, this would enable players of all levels to get gear to use or sell without having to dig, loot and craft. Bandits with a pistol would drop the pistol as well as their armour and jewels.

It makes sense that crafted gear is worth more than the mats used to make it.
It is good that missions for dappers are now relevant.
It does not make sense that these are the only ways to make enough dappers to play the game.

Indobi made an excellent point. For a higher lvl (in crafting) the dapper are still a minor nuisance: Easy to come buy, be a millionaire quick. It started already that I've seen higher players offering 100k for free to lower level players in- and outside of guilds.

However lower levels have to work hard. I can currently make 3 crafting missions for a total of about 50k dapper, but it takes me 3 hours to dig up the mats. Granted I may not be very good at it, but that's the way it goes. So what does someone do in lvls 20-60? It's really tough.

But the problem will solve itself: Give it another month and homins will be rich and newbiews get dappers for free again. We're going back to a time-based economy: How much time do you invest into digging/looting versus someone else to do the crafting/careplanning/protection/etc.

Since it's a very hard problem to balance out a dapper based economy I'm probably quite happy when the old status quo is reached. But I remember being a total newbie (<50) that life was hard.

Well, after almost 2 months of gameplay, I think I can change a bit the worries I expressed in other posts, at beginning of the new era.

At first, new economy appeared a bit too much mission driven, and too much oriented for crafters (tho, it's logic crafters would move economy more and better).

Now I changed my opinion and, apart of some tuning devs can do, game is much better now.

To judge it, you must forget your past years living here as a billionaire. Think as a new player.

The impression of having the game heavy misison driven is just because of the old players retaining their skills, that just needed to reach fast the dappers to buy apartments and guild halls, along with an heavy fame runs.

But, once the first wave ends, you will see that missions are not so heavy as tought before.

And when you judge missions, you have to consider the time and stuff needed to accomplish them.
In example, most armor cafting missions pay very good dappers, but you need to dig much more mats and generally you have to organize your packers.
On the other side, a jeweller seems less rewarded, but when you start doing some math, you'll soon end up doing a simple trip for jewels, just using your bag. In this way, just doing 2 cities in 2 continents and a couple of tribes, you can earn 350k dappers, already deducted by tp costs. And this is just with 400 mats, a master can dig in 10 minutes. Hunters gain less? Yes, but hunting is faster and there are tons of missions to do.

So, in general, once you got first goals, the game will be balanced and you'll not be forced to do missions forever but only when needed.

Also, now missions have a meaning, other than fame, and this is good. Also, tribes now have a meaning other than being friendly to protect you. And this is good.
I worked fo be friend of sap slaves just because their overseer have good rewards. And this is good.

For the new players, there is no MMO around where new players can earn much money, why earning 50k instead of 500k is wrong here?

As long as crafters will give correct values to their stuff, i don't see a problem for a new player.

So, at the end, I changed my mind and now i think this is the right direction.

Only thing I dislike, but it's not economy related, is the change in the food needed by your animals, now worse than before.
In my opinion, it's better to encourage the use of them around the world, for a better atmosphere, than forcing people to park them at stables (as already was in the past), and with heavy food needed, no one will move them from stables, now. But this is just something i wish to see to fill my personal taste of the world.

Regards.

I won't argue that ya can "make a living" doing overseer missions. But doing the same missions day after day after day doesn't fit my idea of entertainment. Aside fom daily diversions, I have been doing primarily dig / craft as I work to bring LA up for about a month. Right now I have a whopping 336k. I had 900+k earlier but lost a packer to a gas attack. That took out 600+k. I average abvout 1350 mats per day

I get about 39 dappie per mat selling at 250 choice. The crafted item sells for about 39.9 dapper per mat at 250QL. Seems to me the skill that I spent so much time learning oughta net some return on investment. After my tool died, i grabbed a new one and calculated the following:

128 crafts at average of 264 dapper per craft = 33.8k
Tool Depreciation of 72k x 25% = 18.0k
TP of 4k + 1k travel expense x 2 trips= 10k
Pick deterioration os 25% = 4.5k
LA / jools depreciation = Lets not count
Net income for effort = 1.3k

Seems I could earn a million doing overseer missions for the time invested.

Your calcs are right, but why so upset of overseer missions? they are not day after day.

Yes at beginning you need some mission grind, but after a while you can stop and enjoy other grinds. Or the rest is not also grind?
Actually, after many overseers runs, i have almost 10 millions, apartment and guild hall and i have even spent 200k at wheel.
And it's at least 3 days i don't do a single overseer mission.

I understand your principle of rewarding your efforts, and sure the system need tweaks, but the general idea seems working to me. I can be wrong, of course.

I'm still pretty much a noob, wandering around Silan with the highest lvl of 74. so I have not witnessed the "old" economy; I however have some thoughts re economy in general :)

The market lacks transparency, and price discovery process is hard - I'd probably need to put at least 15 times 100 units of fine Koorin oil on the market at different prices just to find out what the market clearing price is. Rinse and repeat for every material out there, and I'd not be finished before moving on to better mats and starting it all over again.

Some sort of latest deals tracker could be useful, at least to an extent.

Another option would be an automatic discounting system - e.g., if an item is not sold in 24 h, then 10% of markup gets cut off; traders in high-end stuff where the market is less liquid would probably object to this, however.

Haruto: The Market on Silan is somewhat simple-minded, base prices differ between 1 (basic) and 3 (fine) per unit. That is acceptable for simple q10 stuff, but nonsense for q45 dig mats from the jungle (at least it was so when I and my alt leaved Silan a couple of weeks ago). As to the old economy, base price was roughly 100fold, similar on the continent where you got about 1300 per unit q250 compared t0 44 today.

If you want to resell, put 1000% (10fold) on normal stuff such as q20+ dig and chase mat, 2000 on fine, and 5000+ on boss (dominant ocyx, cray, kirosta) mat. You will see all being resold.

ok, this is stupid, there is nothing to do on Atys anymore except dapper missions and socializing. There is no sup bosses to hunt (only extremely rarely now), there is no sup mats to find, (Only extremely rarely now! and only for 5 seconds), there is totally no reason whatsoever to go to Nexus now, no sup mats there anymore or bosses it seems. Might as well delete it off the map. There is really no reason to own an OP either! Whoever came up with these 'new' ideas for Ryzom is ruining it!

I could not disagree more. Do the math: more players, less limited material per player. That simple. Unsure about Nexus, admittedly, as there seems to be a bug concerning higher materials. File a ticket.

I widely stopped running for dappers, doing a crafting mission here and then. I am back to level grinding, team fights against NPC bosses, still about to restore my occupations' skills (some weeks to go til I have all at grade 6), looking for ways to master more skills. I am happy that finding or creating plodi teams became that easy. I am much appreciating the larger community.

Mind: before I had my apt and my sister Diwu's apt full of boss mats above q 220, a GH (Diwu's) full of exc and sup mat below q210, a backup GH (alt player) still full of exc and sup up to q250, and nearly 3 billion dapper cash, on a dying server (I am not an old player, I finished my 2nd year on Atys begin of December). I may as well mention about 300 of each category of q189 divine potions, and hundreds of q60 and q70 occupation products of any kind. I do not regret a second what we have lost, and I love the new world.

Soon I shall proudly own 50m dapper - only few days to go. That is for the achievements, afterwards, I shall care few about getting dappers, maintaining my fortune, but in no way striving to become a billionaire again. I may intensify my search for sup in the PR, so far I have only few. I admit that I dislike the new way mats are distributed in the PR as do many. Yet one can arrange with and has to do.

I fail to see that the devs could and should multiply top materials only because the server is populated, now. I live not badly with my exc equipment. Limitations in equip are challenging for abilities as a fighter.

As to OP, I do not know to which extent the initial problems with drill and yield have been settled. The owners of OPs might comment on. Once the trade with high level and OP mat will be revived, we shall see. Possibly the devs should assess the ratio of OP mat and player base and adjust production if necessary.

But in no way I could corroborate that the game is being ruined. On contrary, it is more interesting and challenging than it was before. Kindly concentrate criticism on real drawbacks. There may be some, no doubt. Thank you.

well then you are brilliant then Daomei, i have finally got my packers, apt and mount, and finally 1 mill dappers, perhaps you are smarter at playing the game than me.
I admit, i am neutral which makes the game harder for me to get around, but thats not really the problem. I have not even begun to restart my 3 occs i had at grade 6 yet. i am still trying get enough dappers to feel comfortable. Then i want to start contributing to our GH if i can.
I still stand by what i said in my earlier statement.

simple, they want missionsto be played, we want them to pay out, make more missions that pay out, who cares if there are a bunch of toon's with billion's (i want to be one some day) i like to grind the game a little bit in many ways, let's have a way to grind dappers, make a mission that pays out good without restriction, make it take a little bit to do, say collect a total of 50 mat's, make them from different things, keep it simple, lower level, and give like 15,000 dappers. then it's still mission based but provides good dappers to anyone, high or low level, and everyone can stop going on about dappers, they're there if anyone wants to make them, and if you don't want to make them or don't like it, then don't, but the high lvl crafters could finally sell at higher prices and get paid for the goods they can craft by the lower less evolved toons. really, it's a game, give them away, who does it really hurt, and with a market tht's more dapper free, we have a world where people are happier and play more.

I doubt that I am much smarter, I got many hints how to optimize my gameplay from other players. Much also depends on the region, desert seems to be the easiest to me, my luck as that has ever been my homeland.

Yet one should be able to progress faster, even as an independent. neutral player. We neutrals, especially those without a guild, have to work harder, indeed. But it should not be that hard. Drop me a message about your problems

lol nae why did you not tell your fellow HO :P

truthfully it was very annoying and almost stressful at first not having enough to even TP easily to res dead homins but there is a great bias toward high level crafting

lets be frank - some people do not like digging and hence they wont craft anyway, for these players they will suffer greatly even with the forum post about how to do the other types of missions, the rewards are bad and it does not really train skills as much

i hated it at first but i picked one craft that most overseers ask for (shields, but jewels are always there too it seems) dug crafted, got high enough now to the point where when i need some i can do one or two high level missions and be content. there is almost nothing to buy (this is changing thankfully, players are using the sell-to-others feature more now)

i have found that if you try NOT to think about missions and just see them as a one-off sort of nuisance instead of a real addition to gameplay (they are NOT a real addition says i... they may force you to dig and craft and get levels and it may be beneficial to you to say this is a "motivation" but it is still forced, by the current system) then one can concentrate on perhaps other grinding or relations, or even the odd boss or two (personally i am dont subscribe to the boss or sup mat "must have" way of life on atys, so i cant imagine what it must be like having less to go around, with bugs to boot)

iirc your craft is higher than mine in some branches :P

sup and boss mats are supposed to be rare, i have to agree with daomei on this. perhaps the frequency of regeneration of each could be boosted somewhat, to satisfy the player populace who enjoy these things but rare does not necessarily mean impossible, if you consider that the new server has only been around a few months, in 8 more years everyone will be fully decked out anyway, the economy is going back to what it was, some homins have what they need and are now accumulating surplus dappers because there is nothing substantial for dapper sink besides perhaps OPs

a big part of the perceived issue is that many players are used to having sup boss npc related items and lots of extra cash from before the merge, i do not know what it feels like to have these things since i am still very new, so i cant empathise. there are some people who have quit but if they return in some months or years it is likely at that time that items mats and dappers would be alot easier to get after the server settles in, until they invent something to spend them on dappers are still fairly useless, once you have your meks apt gh tp money, donation money... then thats it besides ops

when you hit your first 10m you'll feel comfortable enough, i guarantee it

at that point THEN you can say, okay there isn't that much to do because there is not that much new content, it does seem to be appearing slowly. new horizons was a great change for neutrals especially and low levels, this is still an important part of the player base, even if some people are "cheating" for the new horizons dapper rewards with occs now, the honest players do benefit

pretty soon when everyone has surplus prices will either go up from players selling good gear, or more gifting will occur because of surplus and no need for dappers OR my preferred hope - both will happen. personally i enjoy gifting as much as shopping, i have received alot of hateful comments about being evil for supporting market economy but i think this is just one choice of many which does not intrude on the choice of gifting

we will just have to hope that bugs are fixed soon and that new content is on the way, and perhaps some alternative ways to make dappers, more choices never hurt. more choices means more players who play differently. atys has a fairly high tolerance for different playstyles but i have also been told that people who hate digging shouldnt be on here- i have to disagree, you should not have to dig if you don't want to. in fact. no one really has to it is just that it is more difficult to get by. and for anyone saying that dappers be abolished entirely, for there are some of you out there, i really do not know what to say. systems exist, what we make of them is up to us, let's find some ways to make the experience a good one

take advantage of dapper missions, use them as a reason to level dig and craft
take advantage of digging even if you hate it, see it as a way to get the most out of your stay on atys
take advantage of new horizons use them as a reason to see new lands
take advantage of the sell-to-others people will buy your items i do it all day, if it is a good item

if lack of bosses and sups starts driving you crazy either maybe go do something else or and get by on exe or choice gear till later. choice gear can be fantastic for grinding =/ but so many seem not to think so and this is again, because so many are used to having better pre-merge.

and. if you cant find something to do that you enjoy, perhaps think of something you might like to see and either suggest it or attempt to implement it. at the core of it i do believe that some people have already "done it all" and are trying hard to "get back" what they had before, and are lacking high level new content to keep them at bay