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I think the new economy is currently interesting but did not mature enough. We will have to think in different, currency based ways we are not used to in ryzom.

Using missions we got a very precise dapper per basic material exchange ratio of about 1200-1500 at qlt 200+ as a basis for dapper economy. And i think that is a good start. What we need to find out is what other stuff is worth in dappers, and most players still seem shy to offer anything but materials on a dapper basis.

What i'm saying is that once the economy got truely to life there will be more ways to gain dappers: You are a hunter? Fine! Sell basic loot at prizes lil below worth - say 1000 dappers - and you will already sell it now. Imagine - a Great Najab now has several thousand dappers of loot inside it! Two Najabs - one TP!

You can also get excellent or supremes that are actually usable and get much more dappers for it. You are a crafter of awesome items and don't like missions? Fine! Find a reasonable prize for your items and people will buy it - what is wrong with doing 1 or 2 missions to get.... say a good amp or LA. Some guilds are already trying to find out how much outpost mats will be worth in dappers. Player can even become traders now, buying cheap stuff from vendors and reselling them at a better prize. And I think that is a very good thing!

Give the economy some time to establish and work out your own part of the new dapper economy.

I don't like it. I'm spending way too much of my playing time grinding crap for dappers instead finding good mats for good gear. So far I am in survival mode and that's not fun. I think the basic idea is probably a good one, but it seriously needs some adjustments. Why do I sell mats for 2 or 3 dappers and find the same thing from the NPC merchants for several hundred? Just like real life, I find myself concentrating on making a living instead of having fun. It was broken before and it's broken now, just in a different way.

The 2 or 3 dapper is what you get for materials that go to the incinerator. Sell useful mats and get lots more.

As an aside: When the marauders' city and rite are being restarted, the devs should think about a craft mission opportunity, there. As far as I explored the city before the fusion, there has not been one.

Yup will be really fun for marauders with -40 fame in everything
They won't be able to enter a city without dying, and npc's won't let em do missions => gl to them to get some dapper from those.
This is probably the reason why it's not implemented yet, if not then it's something the devs will have to think about.


And like I said before it just feels as a job without pay, ryzom for me was about goofing of and having fun to relax after a days work. I've never been about stats/mats and all that stuff I was more just relax chat poke fun and stuff now the game doesn't allow my playstyle anymore. Atleast in the old economy ppl that worked hard got lots of dappers and could go for boosted armor and stuff ppl like me got basic stuff and didn't dream about boosts. Now it's the ppl working hard that still can dream and get all the goodies and ppl here to relax and play casual that don't get anything out of the game anymore

About marauder options for doing dapper missions: less than half of master overseers are located in towns or villages. Most of them are located in tribe camps, and some of those tribes are pretty close to marauders.

Meh... I agree with Suboxide (aye, it's weird, but I suppose weird things happen in weird situations)

The issue is: High level crafters can easily get dappers. Low level players therefore can't use TPs in the same manner. Which is fine, you say.

Although you miss one of the big points which made me love ryzom above all other games. We were allowed to do whatever we wanted. Before, I could log on, sit about at stables, do 10 ress runs, go on a bosshunt and die 15 times in PR, each time ressing at TP. For me this was great fun, because I could cock about as much as I wanted and I was able to help people without any issues.

I still like Ryzom, so I don't see why the devs would bother with my tiny voice, since I won't unsub because of this. But things were way more fun in the "old" days... In beta I had loads of fun. Heck, a few months ago I had loads of fun. Now, I just don't have anything better to do. You guys keep enjoying the new economy if you do, I don't, and you can't tell me to.

I don't think anyone ever left the game because they had too many dappers. Now people are leaving the game (or thinking about it) because they can't do what they want, when they want to. For a game with such little content, people should atleast be free to do the fun things ingame they like to do. It's very annoying to run out of dappers TPing somewhere or recharging a weapon and having to drop everything to dig.

The system can't be that bad!
I agree it requires more effort to do things and the weight is on missions, but just past the merge I gained most of my money for packers etc, by digging 100 Mats of whatever quality and it got easily sold for....

...700-900%.

So there must be plentiful money in the system.

Weighing in again --

I see people saying "I like it" because it makes "dappers worth something."

I have to ask -- "Why is this desireable?"    I keep pointing out, and no one has countered me, that we *had* a working (mostly) economy before the merge.  It just wasn't based on cash!

"Economy" is not the same as "money".  We had trade, we had cheap transportation (tps) and we had cooperation to play in the world. We had gifts from experienced players to new players.  We were all rich becuase Atys produces unlimited raw materials. Like Subo I didn't do the missions much because they were un-interesting (and significantly incomplete).

Now I have to do missions because selling mats doesn't make significant money unless you jack the price up to make it harder for newbs to buy materials. The monetary economy now just duplicates what is present in the "real" world. Screw the consumer is the name of the game.  Buy cheap and sell dear. etc. etc. et bleeding cetera. Those who were on top are already on top again, even less threatened than before by newbs. And yet -- Atys is still producing unlimited raw materials.

And I find the second two points to be telling.

One thing. I. Have always though ridiculous in the previous system, and that new system has fixed is that mats used to be more precious/expensive than crafts. Which is illogical. Now that crafts are the way to get dappers and mats arent worth much through the merchant, it is more feasible to buy mats and craft them without loosing all your dappers (provided you craft for missions rather than crafting with no purpose and throw away the junk)

On the Plus side...

• It has forced me to take an interest in Overseers & Corporals... I never saw a point to them, before. There were so many easy ways to grind up Civ fame, they were largely unnecessary. Now I feel like I know more about the game because I know more about which Overseers/Corporals offer what Missions where, and what can be stacked together for maximal gains, etc.

On the Minus side...

• In old days, Civ fame meant something (when it affected vendor selling prices). Now that everything vends for pennies (Sell to Merchant), there is no longer any incentive to get Civ fame up any higher than the 34-38 needed for Rites. Citizenship anyone? Who even cares? This means grinding countless Craft Missions for Overseers or Kill Missions for Corporals feels largely like a waste of time because the Fame gains are superfluous (you're doing it for Dappers, period). Doing the slave-wage grind is disheartening. Don't you guys have that in RL already? Don't double up on that whammy. :(

On the Plus side...

• Okay, so to make it exciting again, there's Tribe fame to be had! And many more delicious Overseers to get access to. So it's off to do Tribal Welcomer/Journeyman/Patroller Missions... leading to that 0 Fame mark when Overseers light up. And there's tribes in each level bracket, so there's a Tribe out there at your Crafting level. Now there's a whole new world to explore as far as finding out new Crafting combos to make Dappers (Tribal Overseers).

On the Minus side...

• That makes it more fun, but it's still no fun. Tribal Overseers don't pay any better than the Civ ones. There's no incentive to get fame with any Tribe up past 0, except maybe to feel good. These lack-of-incentives for Fame grinding are piling up.

• The end-all/be-all complaint that nerfs Joy here is... lack of Freedom. Instead of Crafting what I want to craft, I end up crafting what "they" want me to Craft (they = Missiongivers). No matter who the Missiongiver is (any combo of Civ/Faction/Tribe), they never have Missions for the craft skills that line up with what I prefer to train in. So I either have to remake myself to be something the Dapper Missiongiver market desires, or I get to remain myself but find only a handful of Missions that'll pay out decently for what I make well.

(An example of this is Abyan in Pyr, she pays for Fyros Bracelets/Autolauncher Ammo. Bracelets being my thing, I guess I better take up Autolauncher Ammo now if I want access to her Dappers on a regular basis! And I have. Do I feel good doing it? NO. The Kara guy at OO/Dyron offers a good Bracelet Mission, but that doesn't pay the bills. In fact, it barely nudges Kara fame either. The Icon Worshippers have a good Bracelet Mission, but they payout so poorly being lowbies. You get the idea yet? The Smugglers only swallow 2 bracelets at a time. I guess I'll just have to hit up Crystabell every hour+15min. Do I feel good doing that? NO.

Whoring out for a good tribal Bracelet Missiongiver! Send resume to Wintergreen. :P)


Hope that makes sense to yas... what's missing in our new economy is... Fun. :)

•••Winter•••

One good Solution...

• Make Missiongiver payout amounts depend on Fame. The more Fame you have with said Faction, the more they will pay you for the same Goods/Deeds (this only applies to Missiongivers who pay out in Dappers). Scalable all the way to 100 fame.



Suddenly there's plenty of incentive to get max. Fames everywhere. Civs & Tribes both. Find a high-level Overseer in a Civ or Tribe who requires "just the right Crafting skills" (matching yours) as a Mission? Then grind up Fame with them and make them your mainstay for Dappers.

In the long run, such a move would mean that as one grew more & more seasoned with a Craft skill(s) and a matching Overseer's fame that in time one would craft less and less frequently since they payoffs would bring in more & more dappers per effort. That would give the Homins the idea that it's hard work earning a living in the beginning, but that, in time, given the right skills & fame scores (and choices you make), your earning life would get easier and free you up to live a more decadent (i.e. stablesitting) life. :)

(To use the above example again, let's say I've decided that Abyan is the ultimate goal for my Bracelet career... that means Yes! I WILL take up Autolauncher Ammo as a sideline Craft skill, and I will also grind on Fyros fame like craaazy, and heck yes, become a Fyros citizen to help that fame climb along. Soon, I'll be Abyan's favorite crafting pet, making great Dappers on her Bracelet/Ammo Mission. Granted, Abyan is a poor end-choice, but you get the point!)


•••Winter•••

Good idea from Winter, anything that adds more value or the reason to grind anything is a good idea and civ fame benefits fit well.

Stick by my original post, why should'nt things be abit easier for those who put the effort in, be it fame, crafting whatever.

Some peeps saying game should'nt be like work are quite correct, but this is an mmoRpg, you have a Role and you improve and expand on your role in the game and things get better. For me crafting amunition or digging watching for aggro isnt like work its a game, if there was a game relating to agricultural machinery I wouldnt play it.

Don't get me wrong a don't want anyone turned away from SoR but if you want stuff for no effort all the time then maybe an fps is more your thing.

We had no dapper sinks in the previous economy so dapper piled up and became worthless.

Now it sounds like (haven't moved to the ML yet) earning dapper on Atys is more difficult than earning a dollar in RL.

What are the main money sinks in RL that are missing from Atys? Food and Rent. Food might be impractical but rent is much more straight forward. Rent your apartment. If you fall behind on rent, you are locked out of your inventory until you pay up your backrent.