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#16 Added by Irfidel 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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That is unfortunate and would be once more an example of unprofessional communication. What I read wasn't a tell though it was definitely on the forum. anyway, if wel'' have some official statement as Tamarea indicated that will be all the better.

#17 Added by Gibini 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Yes there was a post in this forum in regards to this ruling. The annoncement was done unprofessionally and with a certain arrogance, which is probably why it was deleted from the forum.

Irfidel. it is not right to ask the player base about such matters. These matters are for the Devs to answer, and announce officially what rulings they intend to alter and how those changes will effect the player base prior to implementing them so that us paying customers are fully informed of what impact these changes may have.

Yes the Policy was written many years ago, yes there may be a requirement to alter this Policy. But we should be informed prior to the alterations, as a good customer service representative would do for their clients.

WG needs to understand that many players were playing with multi accounts and were permitted to do so by the Devs for many years. (and there is enough proof to show this) So it would be justified to give players notice prior to suddenly harassing them for playing with multi accounts.

#18 Added by Firstdo 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Gibini (atys)
Yes there was a post in this forum in regards to this ruling. The annoncement was done unprofessionally and with a certain arrogance, which is probably why it was deleted from the forum.

The creator of that post got it deleted FYI

#19 Added by Timna 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Yakapo (atys)

I was part of that post and the response I got from Yumeroh was to log less a accounts so my wife could play. Great answer. I can post his Screen Shot of the snide way he answered my post if you would like to see it.

Don't be kidding. The new rules, maybe not announced but still... is 4 acc/ip. It means 4 different person/ip not 4acc/person. If ever you are more than 4 under the same roof, contacting the support may fix your problem for what I got. If you are less, and want to play with alts, you just can't as is it not an intended way to play ryzom (MMO, u know multiplayer?).
The rule seems now to be 1 acc/person, light grey area with two, dark grey 3, even darker 4, and technicaly forbiden for more accounts. Still, if 2 ppl under the same roof want to cheat and play more than 1 toon at the time, they simply just can't now, and that is not unfair. Even 2 accounts is not respecting the term of use as I read them

max size...

#20 Added by Timna 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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terms of use
Only natural persons who have reached their majority may open an account

AN account not accounts... so it's 1/person
nor may it be used in any way (whether free of charge or not) that is extraneous to the proper normal use of the MMORPG

Same here, out of normal use. Ask anywhere, normal use of a MMO is 1account/person.

So, no need to rage/troll/whatev and ask for ToU. They didn't change, and it has always be written inside of them. Deal with it

#21 Added by Irfidel 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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@Gibini: I believe that with such a tight budget and limited personel, _asking_ should and can be directed _first_ to the peer players. As we all know lot of information is in our heads (often this is =old forum discussions). If we know it already, it's one question less forwarded to the volunteers who are our second level of support. If they know the answer, the devs have more time to develop.

The more questions we direct directly to the devs, the less time they have to actually develop. There are only so many hours in the day.

I believe what you refer to is that it is the dev's (or the company's) role to issue the policies, and communicate them properly. I believe we are in agreement on this.

My point is just that any support requests should be staggered and directed at players first, csr's second, devs/Winchgate third for the benefit of all of us. I believe that this order was communicated as well by csr's.
E.g. by Sywindt: http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/9197/1#1

#22 Added by Gorran 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Irfidel (atys)
My point is just that any support requests should be staggered and directed at players first, csr's second, devs/Winchgate third for the benefit of all of us. I believe that this order was communicated as well by csr's.

Wrong. I am a paying customer therefore, any support question I have regarding billing will definitely NEVER be directed to players.

Sywindt, I know that Nakari submitted a ticket on this Saturday and that <Guide> Tiximei received it. Nothing has been done to resolve the situation. I will send email to support. If that does not resolve the situation in a timely manner, I will proceed with my complaints. Ryzom has a long history of sloppy communication but this crosses the legal boundary into fraudulent activity and trying to fix it after the fact does not justify what has happened here.

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Eldest, Order of the White Lotus

#23 Added by Entendu 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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My opinion is 4 characters for 1 person is enough but I think this IP rule is a bit of a mess and I really sympathize with Gorran and Yakapo. I don't think we should be forced to change the way we play because a small very opinionated group finds it unfair that we have alts but not a single person from Winchgate will complain that someone is paying for all of these accounts.

A side note.. I have worked in retail for like 8 years now and if a customer brought something back and said it didn't work and I said our return policies have changed but its not written down anywhere because we're translating it still that customer would have a right to be upset just like we have a right to be upset that so many rules and changing behind the scenes and we find out afterwards. Please everyone from the Devs to csrs realize we are customers and we appreciate being taken care of and receiving good customer service just like you would when you purchase a product.

#24 Added by Timna 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Gorran (atys)

Wrong. I am a paying customer therefore, any support question I have regarding billing will definitely NEVER be directed to players.
[...]Ryzom has a long history of sloppy communication but this crosses the legal boundary into fraudulent activity and trying to fix it after the fact does not justify what has happened here.

I agree with part 1.

Concerning part b, as I said, there is nothing illegal here. ToU are saying that various account/user is a fraud, then protecting themselves against fraud is something they must do.
And believe me, no answer for a question that is still only a week end old (You know? The days you aren't working? Guess what? People in Winchgate aren't working neither) is nothing reprehensible. I'd say a week is the smaller delay you can wait before complaining of any customer service on the web. So be patient, and don't expect things to change as fast as you want them to, or you'll go from disapointment to disapointment in your life

#25 Added by Sliar 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Timna (atys)
terms of use
Only natural persons who have reached their majority may open an account

AN account not accounts... so it's 1/person
nonsense. As has been pointed out before this wording in no way excludes multiple accounts, your preferred reading not withstanding. Besides this,there is precedent. While I agree multiple alts can be excessive, I agree that changes (yes it really is) should be properly communicated. However I also see an increasingly negative dialogue here, both between players and players and csr/Winchgate. Can we just quit with that and find solutions instead? Thanks

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#26 Added by Neela 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Timna (atys)
And believe me, no answer for a question that is still only a week end old (You know? The days you aren't working? Guess what? People in Winchgate aren't working neither) is nothing reprehensible. I'd say a week is the smaller delay you can wait before complaining of any customer service on the web.

Nonsense, that's not even remotely a valid excuse. Where does it state in a SLA that support is provided Mon-Fri 9-5? Where does it state that responses will take more than X amount of time? They are providing a product/service (the game) 24-7 so support should also be 24-7. Being on the web is NOT a valid excuse for poor/slow customer service. If you are not providing 24-7 support, you have to state that in an SLA or in an auto-reply to an email*. It's called proper customer service and managing expectations.

Having said that, I can see both 'sides' to this situation. Winchgate, for their part, want to (rightly IMHO) close a loophole that they feel allows players to abuse the ToU by using multiple accounts to gain an advantage. They have provided a case-by-case solution for large families. However, if the response to a whitelist request is not done in a timely manner then we, as customers, have a right to complain!

Do I think Winchgate are right to apply this limitation (including the white list)? Yes I do.
Do I think players having multiple accounts is wrong? No, Ryzom needs the money but it depends how many and how they are being used.
Do I think 1 person having more than 2 chars loaded at once is wrong? Sure do.
Do I think this has been handled badly? Yep, yet again.


* e.g. "thank you for contacting support, we will endeavour to respond within 3 years." j/k but you get the idea.

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Elder Of Atys

Chasing the DING!
katriell
You can't "complete" the mainland. If one thinks one has seen or done everything there, one is kidding oneself. But be prepared to "get out what you put in," because the mainland does not coddle or hold hands.
Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.

#27 Added by Azarael 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Neela (atys)
Nonsense, that's not even remotely a valid excuse. Where does it state in a SLA that support is provided Mon-Fri 9-5? Where does it state that responses will take more than X amount of time? They are providing a product/service (the game) 24-7 so support should also be 24-7. Being on the web is NOT a valid excuse for poor/slow customer service. If you are not providing 24-7 support, you have to state that in an SLA or in an auto-reply to an email*. It's called proper customer service and managing expectations.

Hm i think you got something wrong. By your account you gain the right to play on the server. Nothing more. As you sayed before support is a SERVICE provided by volunteers an WG. So theres no way to provide support 24/7.

And to the multi account thing... I just see it like cars. You can have 10, registrated and payed for all. But you will never ever convice a police officer in your country that this means you are allowed to drive two or more at the same time :D (would be a funy picture see guys jumping from one car inside the other while driving and back)

Even if there is no explicit law against it ^^

Last edited by Azarael (1 decade ago)

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Azarael
Keepers of Darkness

#28 Added by Yakapo 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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And to the multi account thing... I just see it like cars. You can have 10, registrated and payed for all. But you will never ever convice a police officer in your country that this means you are allowed to drive two or more at the same time :D (would be a funy picture see guys jumping from one car inside the other while driving and back)

That is one poor analogy.

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#29 Added by Azarael 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Only if you dont get what i mean.

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Azarael
Keepers of Darkness

#30 Added by Holina 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Azarael (atys)
Even if there is no explicit law against it ^^
There is a law against it since you are required by law to drive your vehicle in a (safe) manner authorized by the relevant agency in you country. You have to know this law to get a driver's license. If you do not abide by the above and are caught you can be fined, your driver's license can be revoked and you might even go to jail.

I hope you are a law abiding, responsible driver :P

On the topic of 'the Contract'
6. SUBSCRIPTION AND BILLING OF OUR MMORPG
... Payment of the subscription fee enables the User to access Ryzom without limit during the subscription period and any continuation by renewal. ...

The above should have been corrected before the limit was put in place. You can ask for a charge-back and your bank will handle the case for you (do note that's it's usually a lengthy, multi-tiered process). Of course as with all contracts between parties it's usually expected that they try to reach a peaceful resolution before asking for a charge-back and/or going to court -- but it's not a requirement.
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