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I'm seeing QL250 Choice mats selling for 34 dappers (50 Race Fame)

QL 250 Choice HQ Jools going for 398

So 10 mats x 10 pieces x 34 dappie per mat = 3,400 dappie versus 3,980 dappie for crafed set ....... 580 dappie profit

Well not really, ...... despite master's 85% success rate, averaging > 2 failures per set or 680 dappie lost, costing 4,080 in mat value to make 3,980 sale.

What you guys seeing on other crafts ?

My crafting is about 50 levels behind my digging, so every single combine respresents a loss for me.

I'm getting pre-Swarm prices for everything I manufacture as part of a crafting quest. Why bother selling to anyone else?

Quests have a cooldown....and many can only be done once*

* NOTE: One I did in Dyron (Shields) said "Can only be done once" ..... later on it said the same thing when it 1st popped, then flashed and said 3 hours.

apart from the cooldown thing, which is true, sometimes you just want to binge craft and get many levels at once. I don't think the old way of making millions from binge crafting junk was the best, but I also don't think it needs to be a dapper sink.

I think a good place to start would be to make it such that a crafted item has a base sell price (before fame modifiers) of two times the base sell prices of all the mats in that item. Let that play out for a bit and see if it needs adjusting.

I think the issue is, we're over a week into game and all many peeps have done is repeat same missions over and over again to buy back their packers,, apartments and GH's. Hard to tell how things work long term, as we are not in the "maintenance" stage.

Perhaps a better way to have started would say to have given everyone 1000 dapper for each level they had earned.....4 masters then would have netted you a million.

I certainly had no use for a billion dapper before but the key is once ya bought ya stuff, there was no need for dapper other than TP's. Don't see how changes will change that.

+1

It makes sense that crafted items are worth more than the sum of the mats that go into them.

I completely agree with Yuritau and Fyrosfreddy.

A quick important note concerning Fyrosfreddy's post. I understand trying to make dappers more viable but making them harder to earn and upping the prices on things is a stupid bandage fix. Eventually, as Freddy said, once everything is purchased, those dappers will just accumulate because there won't be much to spend on (exceptions: TPs).

I do know some people suggested having dappers slowly decay, charge "rent", pay "taxes" which would put some value on dappers but cause more of an annoyance (even if the paying rent and taxes is more realistic). I wouldn't mind either if they added goodies to purchase or benefits for the rent/tax expenses. I'll take items that are purely cosmetic and don't actually change playstyle (pets, accessories, etc.). To make dappers viable, there needs to be "products" for people to purchase.

Of course, one can take it a step further to make the economy more complicated by having all resources be finite (to an extent...at least till the "land" recovers and nodes are "replenished" like excellent and supreme). I always believed the Kami Tolerance bar was supposed to help in this regard...so maybe make the KT bar more sensitive and force homins to dig in other places. Example: most 250 desert diggers will forage in Flaming Forest but won't touch scorched corridor because it's not as easy to get to and forage in. Personally, foraging in a level 250 zone should have never been THAT easy (of course, it should never be equivalent to the danger of a PR zone).

I'm sure there are many problems that would arise in my suggestions but there needs to be a better option than just making dappers harder to get and everything more expensive.


EDIT: I do like the new emphasis on missions...but I wish the ones that gave a nice amount of dappers weren't just the crafted ones (though, I can see why).

Well mats are always potentially useful, but crafted items aren't always useful. So it would make sense to me that crafted items that nobody wants would be worth less than the mats. If you are grind crafting, you are using the mats to increase your skill, so you are getting something out of it to make up for the decreased value.

In RL, people buy materials such as fabric from a store, craft some junky "crafts" that nobody wants, and fail to make a profit. It happens all the time. But at least they have fun and have a good experience doing it!

It seems like the big difference in this economy is not that it's necessarily harder to make money, but that you can no longer make lot's of money selling mass quantities of unwanted junk to NPC's.

So now you just craft lower quantities of unwanted junk and give it to random mission givers? Riiight, because that is gonna make for a robust player driven economy. =P

I just think there should be multiple ways of making dappers, all of them more or less balanced. Missions for those who want, mass crafting in front of the hawker, for those who prefer that, killing and selling loot, etc etc. Sure, crafters will always be richer, missions will pay more than NPC vendors (because it takes more time to do them), but in the end the options should be more or less balanced IMO. *shrugs*

Well I guess we'll see how the market economy shapes up. Will hunters be able to make decent money selling grind mats to the rich crafters through the market? I'm optimistic, since the 3X volume boost in the markets from the merger, improved market locations (i.e. q250 in the capitols), and economic recalibration ought to have some effect. This will be interesting to observe. :)

As it is now hunters can sell their loot at a very high prize. I checked Dyron merchants yesterday night to find out if there are any materials that can spare me some digging (i wanted to do craft missions). There was not a single one at Q160 or higher which was sold at an acceptable prize (below about 500-800 dappers depending on qlt). The acceptable prize mentioned is the mission reward divided by material amount needed and equals to a about 1000-2000% resale.

But - repeating myself - if crap mats sell at 1000% we need something above 9999% to sell good gear!

OK, you should look at this fact too, I grind in harvest, get say 10 basic amber mats, go to sell them, the npc offers me 3 dappers each, total of 30 dappers for the amber, I check the npc price of the same exact item and it's over 1000 dappers for EACH item , I sell 10 for 30d, the npc sells 1 for 1000+, how can that be fair, I would have to sell the npc over 333 mats to make the same amount of dappers the npc gets for just 1. GM THIS IS INSANE, even the missions that pay only give a few thousand dappers , after you buy the mats to craft an item, your 1000's of dappers in the hole because the mats alone cost more then you would earn from the mission. I don't see the chance for a new player to make any dappers to get gear and anything else they need.

I think the NPC tab of the merchant window is just a trap. If what you need isn't available in the Resale tab, you're better off simply accepting that you can't get it from that continent's merchants at that time. In that case, either dig/hunt for it yourself or make a deal with another player directly.

With the given economy, it is no longer possible for a homin to only practice crafting. Maybe it will become better as people will have their equipment needs satisfied and enough millionaires are around again. Until then folks have to dig/shoot their own mats for crafting.

The millionaires and billionaires will appear for sure. The only dapper sink in place is the TP's and they've decreased factor 5-10 in price. (Not counting OP-PVP maintenance) The new economy may be a step into the rigt direction but it has to be adjusted in a few months, maybe earlier

Unfortunately we can discuss all we want (and we should) but only the devs will have all data to make the call. Let's hope they're looking at the right things. I'm still optimistic, the merge makes it easier to focus. We now have just one economy. Before the merge we had >3 communities whose style of playing may have lead to different economic situations on the three servers. Another benefit of the merge.