Economy changes are annoying! - English

#48 Added by Gilgameesh 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

After few days, i can say that the concern are justified, but nothing is lost as devs are changing things on the way.
Actually, there are crafting missions that give hundreds of dappers for few stuff that can be done with basic mats.
I did a full run of corporal missions (so, very low level) and, apart of the fame i wanted, i got at the end around 90k.
And timers prevent people to grind for dappers.

Basically the concerns about having economy mission driven is correct.

Crafters being more advantaged compared to warriors or any other non crafter character sounds logic.
Anyone that don't want to craft and dig, will need help from crafters or they will need to run some mission. In the past, the crafter were the richest, and this is normal.

For warriors a possible solution could be to have some quartered mats with higher value, while leaving low values for dug mats. Maybe reintroduce dappers lost by bandits.

Anyway, looking far in the future, devs have to consider people will settle as in the past this way, just need more time but definitely this will not prevent an inflation in the future.
Because teleports and packers are too much important for the gameplay, it's not wise to make them too difficult to manage.

So, i still think we need recurring upkeeps in game and, possibly, rental storage. This storage could be linked to tribes and fame dependant, so devs could do 2 things in one hit: having something really in demand as dapper sinker, and giving more reasons to become a friend of a tribe.

Anyway, i'm feeling the same atmosphere of 2004, so i am happy.

---

Gilgameesh
Legion of Atys

#49 Added by Tgwaste 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Bitttymacod (atys)

As for NPC tasks -- I didn't join this game to do FedEx missions. I can do them in WoW. (Yeah, I played the WoW card, so sue me.)

-- Bittty

Im glad you played the WoW card. Ive been haing a blast in WoW lately with the new expansion. WAY more fun than playing this crap WG is trying to force down our throats.

---

Tgwaste

#50 Added by Shackra 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Kaetemi (atys)

Solo tp-dig-tp-tp-dig-tp is a joke, and I don't see what's so fun about that. If you want to exclusively harvest, get players in your guild to form a mektoub caravaan to travel the materials to your guild hall, way more challenging and fun.

I hell agree on that! Is more fun than using teleports.
Wanting stuff easy and quick as you can isn't fun, the excuse of casual players isn't a good one, after all, is a reflect from our consumists society. You can always play Angry Birds, though.

I dont see any relation between "fast playgame equals fun" (Are you have 10yrs old? :-/), not for me at least. There is more easy games like WoW that people can switch to, insteand of complaining and using vulgar expressions.

He dicho!

---

«But my belief that miracles have happened in human history is not a mystical belief at all; I believe in them upon human evidences as I do in the discovery of America. Upon this point there is a simple logical fact that only requires to be stated and cleared up. Somehow or other an extraordinary idea has arisen that the disbelievers in miracles consider them coldly and fairly, while believers in miracles accept them only in connection with some dogma. The fact is quite the other way. The believers in miracles accept them (rightly or wrongly) because they have evidence for them. The disbelievers in miracles deny them (rightly or wrongly) because they have a doctrine against them. ...» ~G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy cont. http://tj-markdown-paste.herokuapp.com/posts/354428

#51 Added by Bitttymacod 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Indobi (atys)

The old economy was sad, the worst aspect of the game IMO. Things might be better with the new system. Too soon to say for sure. I am now having to make real choices about what to spend dapper on. That is a good game feature. My net worth is slowly increasing, which is as I would expect. So far so good. I don't object to doing missions. I can feel the pain for those who find that objectionalble. Personally I wander the wilderness prospecting and doing missions for wandering npc's and camp npc's when I encounter them. That does not get grindy for me. Progress is slow but I have no concerns about that.

But I do worry about the long term. Even at this rate I will eventually be rich enough that dapper are once again meaningless (although it will now happen more slowly than in the past). As Gilgamesh pointed out, the only way to keep things balanced in the long run would be recurring costs: rent for appartments, guild halls, outposts, meks, etc.

I must respectfully and vigorously disagree with your first paragraph and agree with your second.

Everyone who has commented in this thread has fallen into the trap that the modern world has fallen into: Economy == Money. It just isn't true. Economy is just a description of how homins get the things they need. At the time of the reset, the economy was based on barter and on gifts. Right now... well, it's based on barter and gifts because people are having a hard time earning dappers.

In the end -- any economic system that is based on an infinite supply of raw materials will end up using barter and gifts. The Northwest Native Americans (who had a close to infinite supply of the raw materials they valued) had a word for it: potlatch. Your status was based on what you gave away to others. In our system pre-reset, that was such things as using two tps to run half-way across a region to rescue a friend in need, or giving a gift of a well-crafted set of jewels or an amp, or giving a new homin the money needed to buy a pack animal to allow himmer to set themselves up. This was a realistic economy for the world as it was. There were adjustments that could have made it more difficult (most of which had been and are being proposed by Gilgameesh), but the current system is NOT realistic.

The new system encourages a much more selfish (self-oriented might be a better phrase, but I think of it as selfish) point of view. As an other-oriented person both in real life and in game... I don't like it.

I do understand that a few changes have already been made, and I will shortly be back to see what they are.

(And I need to get my sig back...)

Last edited by Bitttymacod (1 decade ago)

---

Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#52 Added by Tgwaste 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

I completely agree with Bitty. Before reset I would have had no problem giving away a million dappers to a newb and I myself am still a newb. Now I wouldnt dream of it.

Just a side note to Shackra (more of a side question):

Do you think that WoW is easier than Ryzom? Im wondering why. Personally I think they stand the same. Neither are particularily challeging. I mean in the end its: do this to obtain that. any mindless child can play both these games and achieve something. Your comment seems more Fan-Boyish. IE: iPhone is cooler than Android. Just wondering about the mindset.

Last edited by Tgwaste (1 decade ago)

---

Tgwaste

#53 Added by Freier 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Economy this, economy that, market economy is in the process of destroying the RL, why do we need a market economy in this game that did just fine without it.
Players keep comparing Ryzom to other mmos and thats wrong.
Just because other mmos are based on economy and quests doesnt mean its a good thing for Ryzom to imitate.
Ask yourselves what would you gain if Ryzom had an economy system like other mmos, how would that affect your gameplay, your fun and enjoyment of playing Ryzom.

Just like Bittymacod said, Ryzom had a barter economy similar to ancient tribal economies and it worked very well and it fitted the game perfectly, why change that.

The new system is not bad because it does not change much, it just gives players a bit of work to do for a while which is good, after that it will be back to usual, which i would say its a good thing.

#54 Added by Shackra 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Tgwaste (atys)

Do you think that WoW is easier than Ryzom? Im wondering why. Personally I think they stand the same. Neither are particularily challeging. I mean in the end its: do this to obtain that. any mindless child can play both these games and achieve something. Your comment seems more Fan-Boyish. IE: Apple is cooler than iPhone. Just wondering about the mindset.

Yes I do. Five-years-old-experience gamers of Ryzom supports such comparison.
But my point was, If you don't like Ryzom because the hard economy or because the game is "less for casual players", instead of complaining, you can always switch to another game like Wow or Angry Birds and delete Ryzom from your HD.

Now, The dappers aren't meaningless and barter economy can emerge from all this too.

---

#55 Added by Ogozhin 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

As Gilga pointed out, there's still no dapper sink at the end of the line -- these changes are just setting us back some weeks before we repurchase our luxuries. Eventually we'll be back to normal and trading in q250 grind mats. Ryzom has always favored diggers/crafters and will keep doing so.

So yeah, the changes are annoying, not constructive.

However, the idea of occupations becoming the main source of Atysian income is rather intriguing. Levels the playing field a bit. Hopefully they factor significantly into WG's grand scheme for making a realistic economy... if we really need one.

#56 Added by Sxarlet 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Actually, I don't think the changes are that bad. I find them pretty good even. It made me come back because it's a bit of challenge again to play the game. And now the missions mean something instead of just a fame run...

I think it should be usefull if there were a couple of extra ways of making money, but maybe those will come too..

But I agree with Gilga about the dapper sink from appartment, guild halls and outposts.