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So while harvesting my brain came up with this... (Straight to the point then a small tl;dr to explain my point).

For merger solution to the f2p's...
* Pay 5 euro per character (that you don't want reset), keeps skills and gets basic pack.
* Pay 10 euro per character, keeps skills and gets silver pack.. 1 per account.

For longer term solution and financial sustainability of Ryzom:
F2P gets limit to level saaay... 75 or 100... then
* 3 euro to unlock next 5 levels (on all skills) per character.
* 5 euro to unlock next 10 levels (on all skills) per character.
* 15 euro for next 10 levels account-wide.

Can unlock levels all the way to 200. For last 50 haaave to subscribe.
Subscribers are gonna need to get some more fluff to balance it out (double exp is quite sweet already though) like a 4th packer and larger houses. And something mildly overpowered like one +200 focus pickaxe a month.

-------------------------
Why you ask? Microtransaction without falling into the Item Store pay to win. Microtransaction is proooofitable hence why so many otherwise awesome games are being so corrupted. In this case you just unlock levels.

(I've seen pay to win... bigtime... this wouldn't be pay to win, let's please not turn this thread into a flamefest about that)

I understand that many f2p might have the cash but not on a regular enough basis to subscribe. Younger players might be relying on birthdat and christmas cash to pay their gaming.. that kind of scenario. Some folks have PLENTY of cash but 4 kids and very little time (and *leftover cash*) to warrant the monthly fee.

This would allow them to play the game, level at their own pace. And still eventually build up to a considerably skilled character over time. This game IS a lot about longterm anyways.

And of course, Ryzom's finances benefit from the f2p market. Expenses are expenses whichever way we paint it. Ryzom's server and bandwidth providers couldn't care less about "an MMO that retains its purity". ;-) Also, expanding a game like this one isn't as cheap as we'd like to think.


(If this makes sense to you, please refer to your csr, dev, and friends of choice)

100 euros for two lvl 200 alts. seems unfair to me. whoever can afford the most alts would have an advantage

Still gotta level them and don't have double exp for it.

But since we're scrying for possibilities....

(shameless copypaste of self with editing)
F2P gets limit to level saaay... 75 or 100 (still same no meks, no houses, and no double exp)... then
* 4 euro to unlock next 5 levels (on all skills) on one character.
* 6 euro to unlock next 10 levels (on all skills) on one character.

* 5 euro to unlock next 5 levels (on all skills) a second character.
* 7.50 euro to unlock next 10 levels (on all skills) a second character.

* 7.50 euro to unlock next 5 levels (on all skills) each extra character.
* 10 euro to unlock next 10 levels (on all skills) each extra character.

How's that look? (Yes balancing against pay to win is a pain lol)... and still limited to 200.
Meaning full f2p is to 100, "donors" or something like that to 200, subscribers lv250 AND their meks and houses.

+1 to the general idea of finding new and easier ways for F2P'ers to pay something (and get benefits in return) without having to go P2P all the way. :)

Lowering the skill cap would be problematic, though, so please think of something else. :)

Guess skill cap could be left untouched and instead... unlock one or two meks and a house with half the storage of usual ones?

5 euro per mek per character, 10 euro for house?

I don't see the point really, do you really think that this will add more players or more cash to the game?
I dont think so, Ryom is a sandbox with a subscription, once you start messing with these fundamentals, all sort of issues will crop up.

The best industry example of how to do things ( except for monoclegate ) is EVE Online.
Continually improve, expand and perfect the game. Don't forget to focus on the newbie experience.

Note that monoclegate was EVE's attempt to start introducing a cash shop, a big mistake in a single universe sandbox based on subcriptions. The same way it is a mistake to start messing with the way we pay for Ryzom.

If EVE as a hardcore SciFi sandbox can get 400k players, then Ryzom must at least be able to survive and make a profit, purely based on subscriptions.

So focus on the newbie experience. Silan is a very good start, but as mentioned before, once you arrive on the mainland you feel lost. You need missions to guide the players and give them options, improve this and you will retain more players. These missions could give some dappers and xp as rewards, but nothing much. There don't have to be a lot of missions either, just enough to guide the players and give them ideas of what to do next.

The level cap is too high, I would indeed limit it to 75, after which you can pay to advance, how to pay? By subscribing of course.

Don't get the point here? So you rather pay a big amount once then run around with your high lvl F2P for free forever? And you wanna be able that F2P can buy a silver pack wich they can't wear q200 marauder armor on a q120 char?

How are both these things help getting ryzom more money in the end? I only see them getting less this way.

I'm with Subox - if you're willing to pay, why not sub?

Reading the last 3 posts reminds me...

1) there is some kind of cash shop in EVE now - it's possible to buy PLEX (a 30 day Concord Pilot Licence aka the subscription fee) for ISK (the ingame currency) from other players and with real money as well so if you buy 10 PLEX with real money it's possible to sell them to other players and get some ingame value in exchange (like a cash shop)
This is the only cash shop I'd support in Ryzom too by the way...

2) on the other hand: how about a "half" subscription? You get a reduced subscription fee, lets say half the usual one, but have to select full level or full storage (NOT both)
Want to play a merchant? choose the full storage option
Want to partake in Outpost battles and big fights? choose the full level option
(Even though I don't think it's needed as the sub fee here's already one of the lowest in the industry)

3) I was remembering the payment process on bandcamp - for some albums there you select how much you want to pay (can be nothing but can be 100$ as well) I could imagine a "account creation fee" like that to be payed one month after the account creation. Just create and automated mail 1 month after the creation that will include a link to the "payment" page where you're able to select the amount to be payed - if you REALLY like the game you enter a high amount if not just a lower one (down to 0)

The only thing they really need to make possible is paypall payments (even if it would cost more it's just so easy and most ppl have it already, I've actually seen f2p's leave because they couldn't pay with paypall)

Definitely agree with adding paypal or something a bit more widely familiar to other people. Bibit made me doubt and research around in search of a possible scamsite (had never heard of it).

As for Subox's previous comment... lots of people are perma-125's who can't or refuse to EVER subscribe and will stay on their 125's for life (some even seem convinced that Ryzom owes THEM money for "marketing" or something of sorts so imagine.............). Quite sure a few of them will eventually break down and want to crack that cap to 150, some will get hooked on the power and hit 200... after that, they're gonna be too close to "elite 250" so to speak and will crack and subscribe. (Well, that's how I've seen the market work as a general norm for the last 15ish years, not saying I have all the absolute truths.. wouldn't share if i had them lol)

I'm still for lowering the f2p cap to 75 or 100 but tends to make people go into decapitation attempts *grin*

With cap down to 75 or 100 unlocking levels bit by bit might be another story (remember the point is aiming at that demographic that has some income just not steady... way currencies work globally, $15 might be A LOT in some countries, specially for someone who only plays a day or two a week). Could still work with the current lv125 cap though less profitable.

Those people only playing a couple of days a week aren't really a bandwidth cost per se, but would eventually reach the cap level (whatever it would turn out to be) and still be able to crawl along to 200 paying as the levels reach their new cap. So the f2p player who'd spend a year or two reaching the 125's without contributing to Ryzom's finances would instead randomly throw in an extra 5'er here and there.... Those do add up in the big scheme of things.

"Half subscription fee" is also quite appealing with "unlock storage or unlock levels" option now that it's mentioned, worth exploring.

And just to say something controversial: Giftable "Time cards (virtual)". Broke as hell and got a week off for the first time in 6 months working Sunday-Sunday? 5 day card!

I probably could pay for someone else's subscription if there was a WG-sanctioned (as in use ryzom.com to credit it, not send the cash to their paypal)system in place for it. Person bribes me with materials or a pocket-healing service of pre-agreed conditions, I pay in 5-10-15-30 day cards.

Would allow people to subscribe with the current system, except you can go on guild chat and say "uh guys.. my sub dies in 3 days and my paycheck is 2 weeks behind (freelancer woes.. sigh)" and score 3x 5day cards. Naturally, anyone who bypasses the Ryzomcard (tm) and goes to cash for mats risks the sanctions any normal MMO would give out for it. LOTS Item Mall games allow the sale of mall items for in-game cash, of course balance goes out the window hence why I don't even MENTION selling items, not even cosmetic. Ours is a slightly different case to say the least =D

(Would be nice to get some official reply on these lines of thought in this thread)
/rant off

Good question. If you sub, your account is locked into P2P mode and you can't go back to F2P. Some people like freedom and flexibility and don't want to get locked in.

Imagine a college student who wants to play a lot during the summer and over winter break, but only intermittently during the regular semesters. Perhaps this player would like to be able to log in every now and then to touch base with his friends, but can't financially justify subbing for a full year if he's only playing seriously for 3-4 months out of the year. If this guy subs for only 3-4 months, he doesn't have access to his character for the other 8-9 months of the year. The bottom line is that F2P gives the player the flexibility he wants, and P2P does not. However, this player might otherwise be willing to pay for benefits that won't lock him out of his account.

Here's a relevant idea that I posted in another thread:

+1

+1 for Paypal. The payment methods presented look antiquated and shaky at best. They gave me great pause when I went to sub...and even took like 10 days for my first sub to go active.

First of all, the PLEX system is not some kind of cash shop. It is RMT ( real money trade ) between players only, facilitated by CCP ( EVE Online ). The big difference here is that there is nothing sold directly from CCP to the players. There is no ISK ( ingame currency ) created out of thin air and then sold to the players, as it would be in a real cash shop. Also it can't be regarded as microtransactions, because we are still talking about the package deal : x amount of ISK for the full 30 day subscription package.

With the PLEX system you can only buy ingame currency by paying another player his 30 day sub for the going rate ( around 15€ ), in return you receive an amount of ingame currency ( no fixed amount, the ingame economy settles the price based on supply and demand ). In this scenario, no damage is done to the ingame economy or industry, industrials ( crafters ) and market players ( economists ) are not affected.

With a cash shop you have a whole different scenario, that is why the EVE playerbase riotted when monoclegate happened ( actually a real cash shop, only with vanity items ).

Anyway, that aside, the PLEX system could be actually a great idea for Ryzom, I sell x amount of dappers for 30 days of playtime. Crazy that I didn't think of that myself before, being an EVE veteran ;) , if you make a lot of dappers then you can play for free. Meanwhile, WG gets their cash either way.

Maybe it won't have the same effect as in EVE, but it definitely won't hurt, it is probably the best idea of the worst, and to top it off, it is tried and tested in the EVE sandbox with great success.