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Assumptions, assumptions. I have four children, my own flesh and blood, that play using f2p. I cannot afford to subscribe everyone that plays in my home. I have no contempt for f2p. I feel pity for people who are given a free opportunity—of any kind, not just here in Ryzom—and then whine about the restrictions, whatever they maybe, placed on that free opportunity. They have missed their own greatness through their own ingratitude. As my boy said, "Well, at least I can still play!"

Some of my favorite players are using f2p accounts. Some of my least favorite are subscribed. The ONLY time I make a distinction is when players ask about guild halls, apartments or packers because that is the only time, in game, when it makes a significant difference.

Out of game, there is a very simple but significant difference between p2p and f2p accounts. One pays and one doesn't. One is a customer and one is, as you said Tyk, a marketing ploy.
Don't know if you're talking about me or someone else. Believe as you feel you must, Gorran will still heal and help any homin who asks it.

I'm ok with my F2P toon's levels being wiped. This sacrifice is certainly no greater or more tragic
than all the inactive P2P toons being deleted, or the loss of rare artifacts by active P2P'ers.

That said, I'm a bit taken aback when I see the following (in this thread, and similar things in other threads):

"FREELOADING"
"waste of bandwidth"
"In most cases accepting your help is just to make you feel warm and fuzzy and useful. Charity, just like the rest of your Ryzom experience."
"Theres plenty more where you came from. Lots of people willing to take something for nothing."
"you can't funtion without US the paying players."
"ungrateful and greedy"

Sywindt has affirmed that the F2P program has helped Ryzom's financial situation. These are future Ryzom subscribers that you are talking about, and people that are giving free and much needed word-of-mouth advertising for the game. Please take care to be a little more diplomatic.

+1 i found out(based on comments above) most of P2P's hate F2P's and they think they're the only players who keep this game alive and F2P's are profitless
really not good to hear i thought that we're one community and we should help any one who needs to
i really was very happy when i heard that P2P's will keep their levels
and i thought they are going to help us to keep ours too or at least to get some rewads
but unfortunately i was wrong
*Winds blow counter to what ships desire*

+1

I really don't think this is the case. I've met some good players that are F2P and they seem to add to the game for me. There are also some that really go out of their way to help the newcomers.

That being said, I understand why it's beneficial to reroll F2P. I'm not at all opposed to some way of allowing F2P players a way to save at least their main though. It would have to cost cash though and still allow them to return to F2P status. If it doesn't cost cash a million alts would clear the reset as well.

It's possible many alts would even get paid for.

The following are the very basic problems that are causing much of these concerns, tensions, strife etc.

1. Paying players had to work very hard to save the game the first time. I can certainly simpathise with that.

2. The entire community (most, if not all players, p2p, f2p, dev, csr, whatever) fought for 2.0. It was really an amazing effort, and we shouldn't lose sight of that. Many of you posting here are being very disrespectful... Perhaps you would like to go back to 1.0?

In some ways F2P resent the fact that some P2P are pretty much giving up, now that they have what they want...

The message from some of these p2p is simple "We have our game again, we don't need you anymore, good luck with that."

Though threatening to unsub may have an effect, f2p players must take a different approach, and appeal to ethics and fair play--not to mention good morals. This is invaluable in this industry. I much prefer this approach to the alternative. Arguably, without F2P we would all still be stick in 1.0.

3. A very important concern is MOST F2P still do not know if even their identities are going to be retained after the merge. The issue of levels notwithstanding, at the very least, we simply need a way to retain our character's identities.

I suggest we stop fighting each other--poisoning the air--and see if something like 2.1 etc comes out of it, because if they can manage to save f2p levels, along with some very rare and hard to obtain p2p items, that would be a great achievement.

Given the way 1.0 was put forward, they probably don't mind if some p2p stop playing--that being the trolls--and I for one am going to stop feeding them...

No, it's only "most of the loudest" p2P players ;-)

Steady repetition of the same argument by the same person won't make the argument better (or worse) it's just seen more... you know all those TV channels where they're selling stuff? What do you think why they're talking so much? To convince someone that their crap is really good.

I was talking to a friend of mine (who's F2P) and he sees this as a chance to get his daughter her own account (was playing on his) and play together with her ;-)

And he gave me a link to an article about all this as well: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/mmorpg-ryzom-gears-up-for-play er-reset-server-wipe lets see who's able to find themselves in there ;-)

I have always thought that the F2P was a trial basis for the game. People seem to think otherwise, as they play F2P permanently. I was one, like Entendu, who started in 2006 while the F2P "Trial" was only on Silan. I thought that it was a great trial, to be honest. Silan in and of itself gives the player a taste of almost every aspect of the game to make a decision on whether or not to sub. That is the point of a trial is it not?
I believe that the extension of the trial to lvl 125 and the mainland was a huge mistake on the part of WG. This isn't a mistake due to the "trial player" being able to live amongst their friends for an indefinite time, for free. It is a mistake because of how the P2P community has abused it. Free healer alts. How does a lvl 125 healer alt on a free account help the game? It is obviously not being used to allow a new player a perspective of the game.
So, now we have both P2P and F2P users abusing the system, creating more work without more income for WG.

Solution:
-Put the F2P trial back onto Silan. Keep the level cap at 125, this allows them plenty of time on Silan to reach those levels if they so choose. This also removes a lot of free usage by P2P players abusing the F2P system for healing alts, which they would likely sub to keep those healers alive - making more money for WG. Since everyone will restart on Silan after the merge, it is simple not to allow F2P accounts to enter the mainland.
-Give the F2P players a Novice pack, which contains their name/appearance and a few stacks of generic materials to help those new Silan crafters. –Identity is important to everyone, even F2P players.
-Place a F2P oriented guild npc on Silan, or just convert one of the existing useless npcs there into a guild official. Allow the F2P players the ability to form their own guilds on Silan so they can feel more of a part of the game during their “Trial”.
-Open the Matis Beginner island for F2P Silaners. This would allow them to experience teleporting around. Create a lvl 50 - 75 zone out of the Matis Beginner island for those F2P so they aren't congested on the small island of Silan.


Other than this, I believe that a F2P needs to subscribe his/her account to continue to play and enjoy the game to it's fullest.

Huh ? I am quite happy to have the F2P community here...as a player, I enjoy the company even though there is little opportunity for us to undertake many common endeavors because of the "nerf factor".

But the decision here was not the player's but the people paying the bills. How you feel F2P had anything to do with the decision to move to 2.0 is well beyond reason. Example:

1. I own a sports pub and 98% of my paying customers advise me that they won't be coming in to my establishment to drink out of their personalized beer mugs if I go ahead with my plan to discontinue the establishment's cable TV Sports Package.

2. I own a sports pub and 98% of my visitors advise me that they won't be coming in to my establishment if I no longer give away free personalized beer mugs.....mugs that don't bring in income since they aren't filling them.

Since I can't keep the doors open, pay my bills and feed my family w/o Group No. 1, my decision must be greatly influenced by Group No. 1's intentions. And while I may love all the guys in Group No. 2 who hang out w/ me every Sunday, the fact that they do not contribute to keeping those doors open means they have very little impact on what is simply a financial decision. I can't keep buying those beer mugs and I can't keep paying for having names printed on them w/o an income to offset that cost.

Personally, as there is a cost involved in moving the toons, I would wish that WG would provide an option to the F2P community. Want ya toon moved over ?

a) subscribe
b) there's a one time transfer cost associated with the move

I'd also drop the level cap to 100 which would allow the development of 27 trees to Level 100. Even an avid player could spend a year leveling all trees to 125 and that' can hardly be called a "trial period". In addition, racial spells should be something to entice the move from F2P to P2P. And finally, the 100 level cap would reduce, to some extent at least, the abuse by P2P players utilizing freebie accounts for heal and CP slaves.

Well said FF. But I still think that making F2P stay on Silan is more of a motivator to sub their accounts.

+1 FyrosFreddy, but I would have capped f2p at 75, that's long enough, but I could compromise at 100

In all fairness, my meaning was that without F2P "player" support we would still be stuck in 1.0

Furthermore, there's not much incentive to pay if I'm still going to be expected to provide marketing support for them as well... Quite frankly that's unprofessional, and reminds me of another game that attempted that and did not do too well afterwards.

Helping fellow players in uni is one thing, providing ongoing marketing advice for a for-profit comany is another thing entirely.

Puting in a good word for an enjoyable pass-time is yet another.

Someone who runs their own business should know this already--no disrespect intended.

a) How do you provide any marketing support now?
b) No one expects anything from you.

You don't pay for the game as a f2p.. so.. aren't you profitless?

F2P are not profit by themselves. But they might eventually go for a subscription later. Most of nowadays new subscribers would not have started playing if it was a subscription from start (or even worse pay 40€ for first month like it was in the beginning).

F2P also make other new F2P or subbed players stay because the would is more alive and has more low-level players to play with. WG is not Blizzard that can ask people who have never played their game to spend any money just to try it (actually D3 has a free, capped and area limited trial too... but it's over after an hour per toon).