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#90 Added by Korva(arispotle) 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Daomei die Streunerin - you have some good suggestions, but I wonder - if they aren't technically able to do a data merge, do they still have the technical expertise to implement the type of thing you're suggesting ?

I wish they would come out and state the exact situation and what problems they are actually facing, some have suggested extra financial means could be made available from long term players if that is their hurdle, on the other hand, if it's technical knowledge they now lack, maybe there are some out there who might be willing and able to assist in that area to do the sort of things that have been suggested by yourself and others here.

I guess unless we're given the full picture we're just stabbing in the dark sadly

#91 Added by Karnig 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Korva
I'm not so sure it'd be as simple as a pure lvl boost - what about all the skills that go with the levels, I'd have thought it would be FAR more time consuming to do it on a 1-1 request basis than a database merge... I still think they must be lacking the database know-how, maybe they made their main DBA's and designers redundant a while back in order to save money and just kept people with enough knowledge to keep the existing databases maintained

"Database" is kind of a ubiquitous term. Many people assume that it refers to something like a MySQL database or some other SQL variant. While Ryzom does use a SQL database it is only used for player accounting, shard administration and some of the WebIG apps (such as mail and forum...)

The game itself has its own "database" called a "Persistent Database" which is essentially a serialized tree of world objects. There are no tables or queries - this is essentially a raw representation of the running innards of the shard. I think this is where the technical difficulties lie. I took a look at the code to see for myself and even the existing tools really only assist in generating files for individuals to do this manually. The entire effort, as far as I can tell, is basically a manual process.

So between the technical complexity of manually altering thousands of binary files, mitigating conflicts between three shards, and then actually performing the file moves... there's the expertise on how to do it and the man-power to actually accomplish it.

Guessing - but this is probably the problem.

#92 Added by Kalean 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Glaz
Achievement System? -- any details of exactly what that will be?
Add your toon to the ryzom armory ( http://www.3025-game.de/ryzom/en/ ) and you can check his achievements there.

Or check this link to view an example

Last edited by Kalean (1 decade ago)

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Kaléan McFerty
Pirate of the Lakes

#93 Added by Sliar 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Yesterday we had a great event hunting Kitins. I never saw so much Homins working together, players having fun.
I decided yesterday night I would finally subscribe my alt. I won't, I will unsubscribe my main now.

There is just so much wrong with the reasons stated for deleting characters I hardly know where to start. With the danger of being long winded I will tell about my experience as a newbie on this game (I've only playing less that 6 months)

When I got to ML (Yrkanis) I immediately met some vets (masters in lots and lots) They helped me, with gear, but most of all with advice and just showing me about.
I fianlly ended up joing the guild of one of those first people I met in Yrkanis. It was nice to get help from veteran players like that. They showed me a lot of wonders of Atys in those first few days and set me a good example. (These are the players you will lose) Getting levels was never about competition for me. I just wanted to be able to help other new players like that. (and yes having lvls helps!)
Competition? You don't know what you are talking about. I have never seen such a community before. The vets aren't competition but inspriration.Now I nearly have my first master (healing) and you say you are going to wipe my character?

I feel betrayed. Knifed in the back.

The message you send out is:
a) we don't care about our veteran(paying!!) players
b) we wiped your chars once, we will do it again. Terrible precedent. Bye bye community TRUST.

The technical difficulty argument reads like: THDT (too hard didn't try)
Well maybe it will be an investment, but you stand a whole lot more to lose if you don't. Not so hard to make a business case on this one.

As you can see you have already drawn the IRE of your community. I had a good time here, I feel like I still had a lot to discover but I will cancel my subscription if you continue to show disdain for you players. I give you till next friday.

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#94 Added by Karnig 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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I have a couple of questions.
Glaz
Paying players are going to get 2X exp that F2P players get
but is that paying players gettng 2X current exp or F2P getting 50% of current exp?
Its a big difference, if 2X current for paying players then getting master skills will be a lot easier than now.

I'm not sure what Winchgate has in mind but I'm pretty sure it is 2X current experience rates.
Glaz
Achievement System? -- any details of exactly what that will be?

I think it was mentioned but this was one of our (Ryzom Core) Summer of Code students. You can see his status reports here:
http://dev.ryzom.com/boards/16/topics/5991
His actual source code here:
https://bitbucket.org/SirCotare/ryzom
And his blog, which contains some screenshots, here:
http://ryzom-achievements-gsoc2012.blogspot.com/

I talk about this and other Summer of Code projects at their mid-term on the Ryzom Core developer blog:
http://blog.ryzomcore.org/2012/07/summer-of-code-midterm.html

Glaz
Are all the other game elements going to be ingame as they are now -- skills, occupations,
adv occupations, fame system, faction points, encyclopedia, missions, etc.... ?

I believe this is true as this is all static level design data and isn't subject to the same "merger" challenges imposed by the code.

#95 Added by Daomei 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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whatever the data structure and representation, we are speaking about less than hundred attributes, fields, or whatever per player. Even if you do not strive to represent them in bitmaps, inverted lists or what else space saving, 2k per toon is an abundant estimate (might be done in 100k). That means 5G if 500k acc are there with 2.5M toons. If putting aside and archiving the roughly 2M inactive ones (no update since 2yrs) the amount of data is ridiculous.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#96 Added by Azarrakk(arispotle) 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Karniq it isn't as hard as you are making it sound. At most they would need to add an export function to the character loading code where the export function would then dump the relevant character data to an ordinary sql type db. This is exactly the approach I've used in professional datamining/recovery where an OODBMS is involved. Now it may well be they can't afford to pay someone to do the necessary work, but it is not an insurmountable or even difficult technical problem.

[EDIT: duh they already *have* an export - the character web api - technical problems my rear end]

Last edited by Azarrakk(arispotle) (1 decade ago) | Reason: new info

#97 Added by Karnig 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Kalean (Aniro)
Glaz
Achievement System? -- any details of exactly what that will be?
Add your toon to the ryzom armory ( http://www.3025-game.de/ryzom/en/ ) and you can check his achievements there.

Or check this link to view an example

Yeah - that was his basis. He's completely rewritten that achievement code and is working on real-time achievements and more advanced stuff. The new code that'll go live is a lot better and more directly integrated into the game. I think his existing achievement system is a pretty good demonstration though.

#98 Added by Daomei 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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It is even easier. They could store the data in a simple blank or comma separated list, primitive ascii stuff. Any database is able to convert that into a table of which structure wanted ever.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#99 Added by Korva(arispotle) 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Karnig

"Database" is kind of a ubiquitous term. Many people assume that it refers to something like a MySQL database or some other SQL variant. While Ryzom does use a SQL database it is only used for player accounting, shard administration and some of the WebIG apps (such as mail and forum...)

The game itself has its own "database" called a "Persistent Database" which is essentially a serialized tree of world objects. There are no tables or queries - this is essentially a raw representation of the running innards of the shard. I think this is where the technical difficulties lie. I took a look at the code to see for myself and even the existing tools really only assist in generating files for individuals to do this manually. The entire effort, as far as I can tell, is basically a manual process.

So between the technical complexity of manually altering thousands of binary files, mitigating conflicts between three shards, and then actually performing the file moves... there's the expertise on how to do it and the man-power to actually accomplish it.

Guessing - but this is probably the problem.

That would certainly explain a lot, must admit my experience of inner workings is with WoW and Lineage2 which are both very much database driven, but if it's a case of it being a huge manual task then I still believe they have to weigh that against the huge loss of long term revenue if they drive all their long term subscribers away.

If they've already genuinely done that and it really isn't viable then in my view this move is a hopeless attempt to save a ship that's already sunk :( They'd be better off cutting their losses now rather than drawing out the inevitable for a short period longer

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Korva(arispotle) (1 decade ago)

#100 Added by Soularis(arispotle) 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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The fair thing to do is to delete all the f2p accounts and somehow transfer all the p2p accounts. People are paying you to keep this data save on your servers afterall....

This is at the moment really lousy customer service in my honest opinion and I cannot blame people cancelling their current subscriptions. You will loose quite a bit of trust from the customers as well, I mean; can you promise them that this will not happen again?

#101 Added by Frappi 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Resetting all characters. Absolutely insane.

Not only will I quit playing forever, but I demand a REFUND for my last payment.

Last edited by Frappi (1 decade ago)

#102 Added by Gilgameesh 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Hello all.

It's a sad day for me to come back to read these news.
I'm not sure if i continue to sub the game. Actually if I think all the long time spent here to gain my masters my reaction is not to resub. Anyway my yearly sub lasts in december, so i have time to decide.

I think it was a hard decision from the devs and I'm sure they are not happy same as most of us, considering they don't know if this decision will really bring new life to Atys.

I hope for the best, still I can't believe my character will die soon.

Anyway, i wish to thank all the players I have met that contributed to my fun, all the old and former members of Legion of Atys, all the csr for their hard job, despite some mistake, and obviously, the devs.
I was one of the players that often criticized (but also welcomed) the devs decisions in the past, but I consider myself a true lover of Ryzom, and I am.

I can't name all the people i met in 8 years, but i wish the best for all of them.

Thank you all. Maybe I will be back.

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Gilgameesh
Legion of Atys

#103 Added by Sarifina 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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I can't believe Sarifina will die September 22, 2012.

I will not return since Ryzom is killing my character, that will be the day she dies. I cannot re-do what I have done in the last 6 years, and I won't. I am a master of all armors including having a full NPC crafting ability......I won't get that back will I? It's heartbreaking that there is no way to merge servers as they have done in the past and not delete us. As mad as this makes me, I would never give up that last 6 years....but I will NOT give Ryzom another minute. Who's to say I put in more time and money they don't delete me again? Thanks to all who have helped me over the years, I will miss you all so much. Goodbye Anifiras and Jaslene as well (almost forgot to say goodbye to my slaves)

#104 Added by Tumbleweed 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Pop goes Ryzom. Good i've completely moved to Eve year ago.
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