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#1 Added by Fyrosfreddy 1 decade ago [en]

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One little crimp in the F2P level cap is that peeps can't craft their own gear. Methinks the forage / craft caps should be set that peeps could craft their own jools, weaps and armor if they want to

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#2 Added by Bitttymacod 1 decade ago [en]

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Heyas, FF

I disagree.

They can craft their own gear up to q130. They just can't craft the maximum q gear that they can use. That would be an incentive to have people change over to paid accounts to support the game.

And if you're in a guild, having your guild crafter make you q150 gear is trivial. That removes even that incentive if people are contributing to the healthy guild environment of the game.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#3 Added by Gasket 1 decade ago [en]

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I'm with bittty on this one, the 125 cap is only logical if it is for all the skills.

You don't need to wear max quality gear for your current level. I used a q160 HA up until 210ish melee, and it was fine. Weapons will have the damage capped by the skill level to use them anyway, and armor and jools will just be missing some statboosts.
The only problem is that the spells at lvl 125 are lvl 140, which means you will be unable to make amps that will work with your racial spells. However, it is easy enough for anyone to ask in guild, region or even uni and get a set of amps crafted to make this irrelevant.
Most of all, as bittty said, consider it an incentive to start paying for ryzom!

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Gasket

"It's shite being tryker! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of Atys! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the Matis. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a shite state of affairs to be in, Marceline, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ****** difference"

#4 Added by Daomei 1 decade ago [en]

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I agree to Bitty and Gasket. As it fits into the subject of the thread though not in the thread starter's proposal (my apologies), I would like to make a different proposal: In order to fight depopulation of the servers, the devs should consider to open f2p for old players and those whose sub elapsed and was not renewed. Those players should be able to continue with all levels capped to 125, no access to apartment inventory, packers and guildhall. Once they are renewing a sub, they should be restored to all levels above 125, with their intermediate progress below 125 reflected.

I know that this means some changes in NeL data structures. The levels would have to be held twice, once the original one to be restored on renewal of sub, packers and apartment inv greyed out or hidden, gl/ho privileges for gh inv revoked. The benefit would be to keep players in the game and to attract former players.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#5 Added by Celayne 1 decade ago [en]

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I agree aswell, 125 across the board is a real fair deal. In the past we had 20. Now you can visit ANY area and play half the game (level wise) for FREE.

#6 Added by Fyrosfreddy 1 decade ago [en]

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Point I am getting at is that it has created a game mechanic which prevents people (an individual or a new guild) from being self sufficient. As a result, I see less and less people investing the time and effort in digging and crafting....and LESS people staying in game or subscribing once they reach 125. Why bother to invest in digging & crafting if the game mechanics eventually won't let you make anything that you can use ?

What I see trending, in talking to crafters long known for being willing to help anyone, in or out of guild....is peeps sending PM's asking for complete new sets of gear at 70, 80, 90, etc who are unwilling or unable to either obtain or assist in gathering the mats.......

Perhaps a better solution would be to apply the cap across the board as Celayne said.... If a level 250 player can't wear greater than 250 gear, why should a 125 player be able to wear greater than 125 gear ? IOW, If ya cant make it, ya cant wear it.

Last edited by Fyrosfreddy (1 decade ago)

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#7 Added by Jarnys 1 decade ago [en]

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well the lvl125 ppl are much better of than the lvl250 ppl...

if you're lvl 125 you can craft q130 (5 above your level)
if you're lvl 250 you can craft q250 (0 above your level)

if you're lvl 125 there are other people that can craft q150 (max wearable)
if you're lvl 250 the theoretical max depending on mats would be q270 but it's q250 because it's not possible to craft anything higher than that and both are below the theoretical max q275 which would be wearable.

(hope I didn't get any numbers wrong)

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#8 Added by Gasket 1 decade ago [en]

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I'm sorry freddy, but I just don't see how someone can get annoyed that they cannot craft their own gear, for no reason other than they are not subbed, and then deciding to not sub. There just isn't any logic in that.

Wearing armor and jewels below the max you can wear isn't anything new, everyone who has mastered a skill, or even gotten close to a master, is doing it, just like jarnys said.

That this would make people quit playing doesnt make any sense, since you can craft melee weapons that you cannot uncap, jewels and armors that are almost as good as the best you can wear (like it has been said, masters are further from the theoretical max than 125ers). The only thing missing is amps for your latest spells, and for ele this is a problem since you just get your racials and can't make amps for em. For healers, this isn't such a big problems since you often heal with dual heals and you do not have enough credits to pull off a double 140 spell without timecredits and math says you shouldn't ever use those.

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Gasket

"It's shite being tryker! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of Atys! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the Matis. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a shite state of affairs to be in, Marceline, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ****** difference"

#9 Added by Gasket 1 decade ago [en]

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This is one of the cheapest MMOs out there currently, if you look at the montly cost. (and the absolute best, even without price as a factor, but thats a very biased opinion, coming from me ^^)

People not wanting to sub is either that they haven't gotten into the community, haven't figured out how the game is supposed to be played, or just havent got the cash. If you just haven't got the cash, you have to accept not playing on the same level as everyone else, otherwise we'd all be on free accounts right now. This does not mean missing out on content, in GoJ we have brought 125ers (almost put the B word there... *looks around for sywindt*) to PR-hunts, dante, pei-ruz and even pei-ziao.

Just because someone else can make gear with 10 more hp boost than you does NOT make your crafts useless. Me wearing q160 HA until 210 melee is a proof of that. Maxed gear just isn't needed.

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Gasket

"It's shite being tryker! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of Atys! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the Matis. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a shite state of affairs to be in, Marceline, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ****** difference"

#10 Added by Fyrosfreddy 1 decade ago [en]

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Gasket:

Read the 2nd paragraph of my last post again and you will see that you're missing my point entirely. Why should they get annoyed they can't craft their own gear ? They are getting it made for them w/ no effort on their part.

I'm not speaking for the players upset that they can't make gear....I'm speaking for the crafters I have chatted with (member of your guild among them) who are being asked to make it for them AND dig the mats. You wearing 160 HA till ya get to 210 is not what I am talking about....crafters getting a PM from a player asking them to make a QL80 set cause they just outgrew the QL70 set you made them an hour ago is.

I'll make anyone anything they want...if I have the mats, I'll donate them. Many GoJers can attest to that. But when I don't, I ask the player to come help me dig the mats & they decline because they dont wanna invest effort in that skill tree since they "can't craft their own eventually" because of a game mechanic is "enabling". A 125 cap shud be just that.

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#11 Added by Bitttymacod 1 decade ago [en]

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Ummm... Gasket, Freddy.... It's reading to me that you two are in violent agreement. :))

It does disturb me, however, when I get a call the next day for q90 jewels when I've just given a set of q80's. Since gear never makes you uber, there's no need to chase the small upgrades, only the big ones. I try to explain this at people, but some of them don't listen. (Others do, thankfully, and only come back to me when their amps have outgrown their spells.)

I really don't understand the grabbing for more, however, much a Gasket does not. When I was a homin fresh in from Silan and before I joined GoJ (and even after), I asked the experienced players what it was that I needed when I felt I needed something. Often what I needed was a technique, not gear. Mayhap some of the newer players need a reminder on that. (And again, some of them do not, and I am glad to see that.)

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#12 Added by Fyrosfreddy 1 decade ago [en]

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Bitty:

We have all known more than one or two "Gimme-Jimmy" in our years in Ryzom. It seems however, that the 125 skill cap / 150 gear cap quirk has reinforced that mindset a bit. Maybe Im reading more into than I should but it is odd to have this "reasoning" quoted to me 4 times in 2 days.....not to mention discussions with other crafters who have experienced the same. I don't see a downside to an across the board 125 cap for skills and gear.....but meybe the effort involved to implement would be too little return on investment.

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#13 Added by Hechicera 1 decade ago [en]

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So what we have here, in some ways, isn't a problem with the game, but rather a problem with the attitudes of some players, who are feeling entitled and feeling they have the right to get stuff without having to do anything for it. They can then use a game mechanics excuse to not contribute to supporting themselves.

So, yes, I agree with Fyrosfreddy that it would be very nice for the F2P players to be able to at least dig the mats for the gear they can wear, since the crafting really isn't an issue if the player brings the mats - it's the digging that takes the most time.

#14 Added by Irfidel 1 decade ago [en]

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I agree that what you describe is a problem with the mindset of players. And I fully agree with Gasket. It sounds ridiculous to me that people would want to continuously play Ryzom for free. I hear the point of a 125er not being able to dig 140 mats. But let's assume that helping attitude is not a problem. What's to hinder the 125er to assist digging with caretaking plans?

And, ultimately what's preventing a 110er to start thinking about subscribing?

Admittedly I'm a slow player. I'm on level72 now. But I've subscribed about >two years ago and only started playing way after that. I just fail to see how ~10USD per month (is that right? I'm in EUR-land) would set back too many people by too much.

Every week, when I play board games with friends most of them pay that just for drinks in the pub we play in. Going to one movie is a similar price (here it's actually ~14USD). And yet for the Ryzom subscription I can have dozens of hours of entertainment and meet great people. I don't get it.

Yes, this is an attitude problem. There must remain an incentive to subscribe. And we need to get the point across to new players.

Last edited by Irfidel (1 decade ago)

#15 Added by Gasket 1 decade ago [en]

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Ah, I missed your point, I'm sorry freddy ^^ (and yes, it's always fun to argue when you agree, it is guaranteed to end well then bittty!)

With the case of many "free to play" players having a different mindset, that is oriented to be handed stuff without effort, as in not helping to gather mats etc, that is how it will always be. People who play a game because it is free often (definately not always, there are some really nice f2p-players in ryzom) have a mentality that means they expect stuff without giving anything back. This goes for both ryzom and any other game I've played.

I see how these players hide behind the "I can't dig the mats, sorry", but I also do not see how raising the cap would help. I can almost assure you that they would find another excuse to hide behind.
Ryzom is very different from most games, since great gear isnt really necessary (a decent set of amps is all it takes to do magic, no LA or jewels needed), and upgrades therefore aren't justified quite as often.

Therefore, the only thing we can do is tell them that their gear will work for a few more levels, that they will have to live with q130 armor since the crafter doesn't have mats/want to dig it. There are those who can accept it, and those who can't. Those who can't, I can live without.

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Gasket

"It's shite being tryker! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of Atys! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the Matis. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a shite state of affairs to be in, Marceline, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ****** difference"

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