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What amazes me is that this thread hasn't been locked long ago. Have the mods all gone to sleep?

Guys if you can't engage brain and refrain from abuse, please refrain from posting.

Neela: I fail to see why it should have. There are practically no insults or personal attacks, neither by Dainan, much less by Tgmage, nor from the posters trying to address the points they made.

Among these points, those of Tgmage seem to me to be more worthy to be responded to than those of Dainan who is mainly uttering frustration. But as long as he does not insult anybody, I fail to see an offense of posting rules in that. I am fully able to sustain criticism, and so are the others.

As far as you mean most of significance has been said by now, I tend to agree. That's why I did not continue commenting.

Indeed, I stopped participating in Ideas discussions when I realised I was slowly turning into one of them :P

I am aware this a turn-off for a lot of people, but can you blame a game for some rotten apples amongst it's players? I can't think of anything "the game" could do to solve this problem, as you can hardly ban people from expressing their opinions.

So you would consider comments like:or
to be insulting? You wouldn't consider:

or

to be inflammatory and derogative? I remember a time when all of the above would have been cracked down on and the offenders sent an email telling them to behave.

You have singled out a small number of offensive statements which were overshaded by a discussion widely concentrating on facts, views, opinions, not insults. Whether or not the contrahents should be disciplined for these few deviations is a matter of judgement of the Mods. As the discussion proper has not deteriorated in the course of postings, it is a valid decision not to warn or censor.

All in all, participants with quite different views, opinions, and playing record have brought up sensible and interesting points, Dainan and Tgmage clearly included (though I regret a bit the tone of frustration in Dainan's statements). There is much in the thread to think about and to learn from, no matter which conclusion one draws.

And still I fail to see reason for extensive policing.

On the whole this thread is pretty well behaved considering the subject :) Let's try to keep that up.

I actually spoke to Tgmage tonight in game, first in uni then via tell. Initially I mistakenly thought he was just moaning again about game mechanics like others who have come from games like WoW. During our conversation I realised my mistake, for which I apologise, and changed my impression completely. I now believe that his comments are born from a frustration for what Ryzom should be. I see my old passion in him and that is not a bad thing.

That brings me to the point of my post, an attempt at explaining perspective, at least mine anyway. Ryzom has been around for a long time and has a very troubled history. I, for one, have played this game since its very early beta days, back in the days when gaming magazines were hailing it as a revolutionary concept in MMOs (at that point WoW didnt exist). I played through FBT (hence the Elder of Atys title that I am very proud of) and the very early days of the game going live, I've been through all of the history and it doesnt need re-hashing here. Suffice to say I have a deep love for this game and I don't visit Atys for the ding.

For me it isnt easy to explain to anyone who hasn't lived through Ryzom's history what it means to some of us (try reading Chasing the Ding in my signature for a tiny part of it). To me Ryzom isnt about digging, fighting, shooting, healing or any of that (yet how many games let you do them all with one toon?). It's about the starscape when you look up at night in the desert. It's about the snow scenes in Matis lands (at least it stops raining then). It's about the sunset over Flaming Forest, my favourite time of day. It's about the habits of the creatures if you stop to actually watch them (I was taught to do that by another old timer). It's about how a Varynx circles its prey after a kill before it feeds. It's about attending the memorial to an old friend who died but his family knew he cared so much about Ryzom that his son-in-law brought his character back in game one last time -Sixxus you were one of a kind. You werent the only time I shed tears over Ryzom but you were the one that meant most.

The programmers from Nevrax who made this world created a beautiful, vibrant, varied world full of life and then they put a game in it. The shame is that the original dream has yet to be fulfilled.

You newer players that voice your frustrations about the imperfections have to appreciate that we have been there, we have shared your frustrations and we have, to some extent, come to terms with them. We have been through a lot more than just playing a game. We don't mean to shoot you down, we don't mean to sound like we are attacking you for criticising. We try to just get you to see that with Ryzom things dont change so fast. We try to get you to see things from our perspective but that isnt fair because you werent there. I was as passionate and vocal as any of you new homins (certainly where PvP is concerned; right Jayce?) but now I just go with the flow. Ryzom is flawed, so is life, but at least Ryzom still lives. I for one am just happy to still be able to walk the desert.

To you old timers like me, give these guys some slack, at least they care enough to voice an opinion, they want Ryzom to get better, they want a future, so do we all.

Anyone who cares to is welcome to come see my version of Atys. It may not help but it will give you something to see that you might not have spotted before. I was pleased to find out that Tgmage has.

What an amazing, thoughtful post. Well done. It definately put things into a lot of perspective (as well as the rest of our posts to shame, lol).

You know sometimes while walking around and looking at things I stop to look at somthing and try to imagine myself in the guys chair who designed that little piece of what im looking at then I imagine all the pieces of the world and get a headache cause MAN Its BIG and Ive only seen a small fraction. Cant wait to see the rest.

Neela, Im glad our discussion turned friendly. I look forward to seeing you in game.

P.S. ya.. it rains a lot! haha