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#28 Added by Dainan 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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An update (mostly for the benefit of other people considering Ryzom - not so much for the existing playerbase): 

I fell for the politics possibility about a week or two ago and decided to subscribe. Should have done my homework first (and by homework, I mean a lot of searching around archaic forums for information on the concept, since it's not readily available elsewhere and/or the information that can be found is a bit out of date), since it turns out I'd have to dump my guild in order to participate or be forced to choose a religious side in the game (you call 'em factions, I call 'em religions - potato, potahto), neither of which appeals to me.

But I decided to give it a go anyway. I probably won't be doing it again after my Ulitmate Game Card points are all spent. Here's why:

* THERE IS A VOCAL MINORITY ON THIS GAME THAT ACTIVELY ATTEMPTS TO QUASH ALL CHANGE. No joke. There are actually people here that vote against ideas just because they would change their game world. Standing up to 'em just gets more grief. Why would I want to pay for that?

* THERE'S NOTHING MEANINGFUL TO DO IN BETWEEN SILAN AND THE HIGHER-LEVEL AREAS. Just about everything Ulykus mentions is part-and-parcel with everyday gaming on just about ANY game. Good gear? You're gonna need that wherever. Hunting? How else is one gonna gain fighting experience? Digging? Boring once one learns there's little (if any) difference between one Choice piece of Sha from one area and a Choice piece from another, and especially dull once ultimate recipes are discovered and stored. I mean, really, when's the last time anything changed on that front?

PvP doesn't happen anywhere near enough to be entertaining (and when it does happen, it's between long-time players that have managed to gain several masteries - booooooooooring), Boss hunts are pretty much the same thing as regular hunting with the numbers increased, leaving only trekking as the game's more enjoyable pasttime - and that ends pretty quickly, because it's not terribly difficult to join a sightseeing tour and look at these areas. Nothing changes, so there's no point to repeat journeys except for more mindless grinding.

* THE GAME IS PLAGUED BY STRANGE MECHANICS: I can double-click on my Range Fight stanza and go full-auto, but I can't do the same for my spells. I can only practice the Water Carrier occupation once every 20 freakin' hours. Finding a safe sniper spot for solo leveling is a wash because half the time, you don't even get the experience points for it. The few non-filler quests there are have strange bugs and/or instructions so vague that a walkthrough is *required* in some cases. (Fyros Story 2 is an excellent example. The Daggers quest in AA is another.) Suggest any of these to be fixed, though, and you get the Change Gestapo up your butt. 

It's VERY frustrating. Not worth paying money for at all, in my view. So what I want to know is this:

Are there good explanations for any of this, or am I just going to be told to shut the hell up and deal with it like everyone else that dares to suggest something needs to be changed or fixed with this game?

Because I'll tell ya right now - if it's the latter, this time I'm firing back. I've been rather nice about some of the attitude I've received while playing this game. I won't be this time. So if you're wanting to discuss this issue with me, I'd strongly suggest keeping it to the game itself and not attacking the messenger.

This time, the messenger's swingin' back. Don't force me to do that. Discuss the concerns civilly or step off.

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"What doesn't kill me gives me XP. :-p" -Sherkalyn

#29 Added by Dainan 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Tgmage
I think people are taking my comments as insults to the game and thus they are trying to defend something they love.

I'm not trying to insult the game. If I were I just wouldn't play. I'm trying to understand it.

My advice would be not to bother, buddy. Criticism of this game apparently is A) not welcome at all and B) taken WAY too much to heart by a vocal minority that prefers we newer players just sit down, shut up, pay money and never have any ideas, request any changes or raise any concerns about ANYTHING involving this game.

Kinda sucks, but I guess that's the way Winch Gate wants it.

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"What doesn't kill me gives me XP. :-p" -Sherkalyn

#30 Added by Dominikus 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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So Dainan, when will your points all be spent? Just marking the sad day we won't see you again with this account.

Oh, and: Threatening us? Yeah, _that's_ going to get you a well-mannered discussion.

#31 Added by Dainan 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Dominikus
So Dainan, when will your points all be spent? Just marking the sad day we won't see you again with this account.

Oh, and: Threatening us? Yeah, _that's_ going to get you a well-mannered discussion.

Well, that didn't take long, did it? Lemme guess - just couldn't be bothered to even ATTEMPT to formulate a response to the concerns noted? Just couldn't WAIT to attack the messenger?

Why on earth would I expect a civil discussion out of someone so willing to fire first, ask questions never?

Oh, and you're so delicate that you feel a declaration of self-defense is a THREAT?! Ha! Maybe I'll just stick around for the sake of skating the line of law and making your life miserable. Since, y'know, it's apparently THAT easy.

We gonna do this all day, or do you want to try tackling the concerns noted?

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"What doesn't kill me gives me XP. :-p" -Sherkalyn

#32 Added by Dominikus 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Nah, I just cannot be arsed, because I do not care about you. And why would I? You are the kind of personality that considers wasting money to piss off people. Stick around all you want, cry all you want, expect things to change because you want them to, I'll just stand here and actually have fun for the money I pay.

P.S.: Try to understand what a messenger is before calling yourself one. Moving on just seems to be too hard for you. You seriously think that people care about your concerns or that if you keep on bitching long enough, that things will magically change, that everyone will change their minds, that the bullies will disappear and that the game company will suddenly have enough funds and motivation to give the game a major overhaul. Try some realism for once.

#33 Added by Dainan 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Dominikus
You seriously think that people care about your concerns or that if you keep on bitching long enough, that things will magically change, that everyone will change their minds, that the bullies will disappear and that the game company will suddenly have enough funds and motivation to give the game a major overhaul. Try some realism for once.

Adorable. In order:

* The first step of change is recognizing that something needs to be changed. This can't be done without raising concerns and gathering consensus. Call it whatever ya like.

* These aren't "bullies". They're jacktards. I'll handle them as I see fit. Just as you chose to do with me.

* Bug fixes and removal of nonsensical restrictions aren't major overhauls. They're regular maintenance.

Much better on the second attempt, though. Kudos, chief.

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"What doesn't kill me gives me XP. :-p" -Sherkalyn

#34 Added by Rollocks 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Dainan
Tgmage
I think people are taking my comments as insults to the game and thus they are trying to defend something they love.

I'm not trying to insult the game. If I were I just wouldn't play. I'm trying to understand it.

My advice would be not to bother, buddy. Criticism of this game apparently is A) not welcome at all and B) taken WAY too much to heart by a vocal minority that prefers we newer players just sit down, shut up, pay money and never have any ideas, request any changes or raise any concerns about ANYTHING involving this game.

Kinda sucks, but I guess that's the way Winch Gate wants it.

As long as we won't have to read your smarmy remarks in unichat, all is good.

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Disclaimer: Any resemblance between the characters in this post/thread and any homins, living or dead, is a miracle.* The characters in this post/thread are fictitious. Any homin resembling them is better off dead**
*You Nazty Spy
**I'll Never Heil Again

#35 Added by Dainan 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Rollocks
As long as we won't have to read your smarmy remarks in unichat, all is good.

You haven't had to read anything since I put you on my ignore list for acting like a jerk just because I said "later tater" to someone.

Which reminds me - is there an ignore feature for the forum, too? Might as well just copy over my ignore list, since I already know no one on that list is capable of civil conversation. Just a bunch of baseless attempts to boss people around and ignorant attempts to call others out for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

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"What doesn't kill me gives me XP. :-p" -Sherkalyn

#36 Added by Tgmage 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Well I as a New Player can definitely see where Dainan is coming from although he seems to be very angry about it which is not something I share. I'm trying to be more of a 'When in Rome' type of person here.

Although I might be failing as reading back at my previous posts I could maybe had written them a little better. My problem is I tend to get frustrated very easily which is believe it or not, a complement to this game. It means I like it and want it to be better but I think I could express it differently and I am sorry if I insulted anyone or came at this subject in a bad way.

(when I say 'Vets' I mean old school players ;))

I don't think its really about the Vets not wanting their game to change as its more like they really don't want another World of Warcraft. I can understand that as that would take away from the charm (being the uniqueness) of this game. Now I would argue that there is a reason that 10 million people play WoW but again this is a different MMO. ( I want to make sure to be clear here. I am not a WoW fanboy. My total time playing WoW in the last 8 years is about 2 total months of playing. But I do play other MMOs and the first thing I notice in any game is its mechanics ).

Maybe some kind of compromise needs to happen with the Vets and the Noobs. I have definitely noticed that any suggestion from myself is basically answered like "No, we do it like this" and I really think that mentality could be better.

For example one thing I would like is for the name of each member of a Team to be a different color (when looking at team boxes on the side) and then tiny arrows (like the compass arrow but smaller) added to the compass with those colors so that you can easily head towards any member of your team at a glance.

Now the answer to this will probably be: "you can right click the compass and select the member" which is fine and that does work but IMHO is not the best way to do it and could be better.

Thats just one example of what I'm talking about. I would like to maybe see just a little bit more of "Ya, maybe there is a better way" rather than "We can already do this albeit in a less sufficient way"

I think I will try to check out the features and suggestions part of this and see if I can contribute positively there.

Take care and I look forward to seeing everyone in game.

Last edited by Tgwaste (1 decade ago)

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Tgwaste

#37 Added by Dominikus 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Tgmage, what you are seeing can partly be described as us not expecting much. There are plenty of good small suggestions, that is suggestions that don't try to change the game as a whole but just improve it (like your compass thing), but we also know that it does take a long time for any suggestion to gets implemented.

But the real "no thanks" mentality I see isn't really about such small changes, at least not from a majority of the players, but about bigger changes that go in the direction of "let's change how game mechanics work on a fundamental level".

#38 Added by Dainan 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Tgmage
Well I as a New Player can definitely see where Dainan is coming from although he seems to be very angry about it which is not something I share. I'm trying to be more of a 'When in Rome' type of person here.

I only got angry about it because it's been nothing but grief and drama since Idea 1. I hope you're a bigger person than I am about it. I sure wish I could be. But I can only take getting kicked around unduly for so long before hitting back.

Not a recommended approach for everybody. Maybe someone nicer and more mature will come along and help me to tone it down. (I'm not holding my breath after Dom and Roll, though. Roll I expected, but I thought Dom was bigger than that. Oh well. Live and learn. Good luck, guy.)

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"What doesn't kill me gives me XP. :-p" -Sherkalyn

#39 Added by Ulykus 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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"* THERE'S NOTHING MEANINGFUL TO DO IN BETWEEN SILAN AND THE HIGHER-LEVEL AREAS. Just about everything Ulykus mentions is part-and-parcel with everyday gaming on just about ANY game. Good gear? You're gonna need that wherever. Hunting? How else is one gonna gain fighting experience? Digging? Boring once one learns there's little (if any) difference between one Choice piece of Sha from one area and a Choice piece from another, and especially dull once ultimate recipes are discovered and stored. I mean, really, when's the last time anything changed on that front?"

I took my time to point out some of the end-game features of ryzom, because i did read your posts carefully and i thought you were asking for that. _Please_ read my answer carefully too, and ask if you don't get anything. You can do that using PMs if you don't want to be seen as a guy asking questions.

Thanks.

#40 Added by Dainan 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Ulykus
I took my time to point out some of the end-game features of ryzom, because i did read your posts carefully and i thought you were asking for that. _Please_ read my answer carefully too, and ask if you don't get anything. You can do that using PMs if you don't want to be seen as a guy asking questions. Thanks.

You were actually talking to TGMage, not me. I did read your post carefully, though. I just don't see significant difference between what you suggested as end-game goals and what can be done on comparable games. Gear-chasing, loot-finding, and mob-hunting are all basic staples of games of this genre, for the most part, and crafting isn't enough to sustain my interest in the game between Silan and being able to chase the higher occupations in the higher-level zones - which I don't want to do now, since there's a baffling restriction on pursuing them and some people (not yourself) seem rather hell-bent on being jerks about the matter rather than attempting to discuss the concerns.

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"What doesn't kill me gives me XP. :-p" -Sherkalyn

#41 Added by Inifuss 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Dainan
I fell for the politics possibility about a week or two ago and decided to subscribe. Should have done my homework first.

You really should have. But you totally missed the most obvsious and easy way to research, ask us old timers (a few of us in your guild :D) and you would not necessarily have to completely search through an "archaic" forums system - See Ryzom DOES make good changes! :D

As for the rest of your post, I can understand how you see it that way.. the typed word is always easy to misconstrue and hard to hit it spot on. I could read almost every post in this thread in a different voice to give it a different perspective (anger, questioning, helping, etc.). Keep that in mind not only for the replys to you but from you as well.

The entire reason the idea boards are there are for players to discuss the ideas. If someone likes your idea, they might or might not post saying so. If someone doesn't like the idea they have every right to say so as well. It is not griefing but a statement of opinion. Perhaps they do like something the way it is, just because you have a new idea does not mean that the current way is invalid. As far as those offering the ways it can be done (or different manner) they are just trying to be helpful, knowing you are new and may not realize that it is an option, they are not trying to quash your idea by offering such advice.

As far as "meaningful" things to do, again, that is in each of our perspectives. There is a lot of things to do and there is a lot that each of us can do to make the game more meaningful. Besides what has already been mentioned, Ryzom can be highly RPG centered and the way that we, the player, can affect the storyline is pretty unique (there are a few others that let players affect a storyline, but not on the level Ryzom does) and it was only mentioned briefly in another post. You can become part of the political process, interact with live event characters that respond to you, not just some pre-set mission that EVERYONE can do to get the same results, and make a mark on history. These RPG events are what drive the story of Ryzom, not the missions. This also means that each of us have the ability to add our own content (perspective) to the storyline - look at all the wonderful stories written in the Roleplay forum.

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Peace, Luv & Cookies,
Inifuss

#42 Added by Gryshnozk 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Dainan
I fell for the politics possibility about a week or two ago and decided to subscribe. Should have done my homework first [...] since it turns out I'd have to dump my guild in order to participate or be forced to choose a religious side in the game
The reason you can't be involved with certain races' politics is because you are in a guild that hasn't sworn their allegiance to them. I believe the requirement to be either neutral or have the same allegiance as your guild is a left over from the days when there were a lot more people. Since I don't really care or know much about civilizations I may be wrong but, as far as I know, you can get involved with the politics in your current guild's home land.
Dainan
* THERE IS A VOCAL MINORITY ON THIS GAME THAT ACTIVELY ATTEMPTS TO QUASH ALL CHANGE. No joke. There are actually people here that vote against ideas just because they would change their game world. Standing up to 'em just gets more grief. Why would I want to pay for that?
You are correct, I think that avoiding change out of fear is bad almost all the time.
Dainan
* THERE'S NOTHING MEANINGFUL TO DO IN BETWEEN SILAN AND THE HIGHER-LEVEL AREAS. Just about everything Ulykus mentions is part-and-parcel with everyday gaming on just about ANY game. Good gear? You're gonna need that wherever. Hunting? How else is one gonna gain fighting experience? Digging? Boring once one learns there's little (if any) difference between one Choice piece of Sha from one area and a Choice piece from another, and especially dull once ultimate recipes are discovered and stored. I mean, really, when's the last time anything changed on that front?
Yes, there is a lot that it practically the same as in every other game in this genre, but there are also some that isn't.

Gear is always needed.
Hunting - as in finding and killing bosses/nameds which is what I, personally, think Ulykus meant - is both similar and very different from most of the other games. You can't be a successful crafter if you don't have access to plenty of mats, either a few specific materials or a lot of different ones to make slightly less awesome items than if you had all that you wanted.
Digging is needed for both gear and crafting xp. I don't know if I ever have crafted anything without using both dug and quartered materials.
Dainan
PvP doesn't happen anywhere near enough to be entertaining (and when it does happen, it's between long-time players that have managed to gain several masteries - booooooooooring), Boss hunts are pretty much the same thing as regular hunting with the numbers increased, leaving only trekking as the game's more enjoyable pasttime - and that ends pretty quickly, because it's not terribly difficult to join a sightseeing tour and look at these areas. Nothing changes, so there's no point to repeat journeys except for more mindless grinding.
I agree, but many does not. I'd say that forced PvP is usually a bad thing, but there's a reason why it was added to PR and OP battles, the problem now is that most veterans seems to like the relaxed and comfortable lack of war we have now. Also, when you are fighting in groups, every person who can hurt the enemies or heal the teammates is welcome, and one more person can help intimidating the opponents.

For boss hunts, look above.

Trekking and sightseeing isn't something I really care about, but that doesn't mean that other don't either.
Dainan
* THE GAME IS PLAGUED BY STRANGE MECHANICS: I can double-click on my Range Fight stanza and go full-auto, but I can't do the same for my spells. I can only practice the Water Carrier occupation once every 20 freakin' hours. Finding a safe sniper spot for solo leveling is a wash because half the time, you don't even get the experience points for it. The few non-filler quests there are have strange bugs and/or instructions so vague that a walkthrough is *required* in some cases. (Fyros Story 2 is an excellent example. The Daggers quest in AA is another.) Suggest any of these to be fixed, though, and you get the Change Gestapo up your butt.
I actually did the Sage quest in FH not long ago and I didn't have any trouble with it so I can't say much about that. But there are a lot of quests that aren't as well done as should, and some that has only been added partly. I don't mind that though since I has always disliked the quest routine that is a great part of a lot of MMO games.

Also, I would really prefer to have the tiny dev. team focus on other, more pressing, things that would improve the game in a more significant way than adding quests.

Regarding the full-auto spells, I believe one of the reasons you can't auto cast them is because it would be waaayay too easy to play the game with an army of alts chasing your tail. This is the reason I hope it will never be added.

The occupation timer, the way the occupations are made makes them take a lot of time and there are both good and bad things that would happen if you could get to the highest grade in a few days.
The only positive thing about it that I can think of is that more people would do them. The downsides are, in my opinion, that without some big changes it would flood Atys with cats, no one would ever craft without using scrolls and people would use potions as if they were playing Diablo II. The reason some of the produce is worth investing time to get is because they are useful and hard to get by trading.
Dainan
It's VERY frustrating. Not worth paying money for at all, in my view. So what I want to know is this:

Are there good explanations for any of this, or am I just going to be told to shut the hell up and deal with it like everyone else that dares to suggest something needs to be changed or fixed with this game?
I'm sorry but I'll leave this point to someone else. I know it's rude to ignore part of someone's message, but I really can't be bothered to write any more words, I've had a long day at school and the bed is calling for me to be enveloped in it's softness and I really look forward to teleporting into dreamland.
Dainan
Because I'll tell ya right now - if it's the latter, this time I'm firing back. I've been rather nice about some of the attitude I've received while playing this game. I won't be this time. So if you're wanting to discuss this issue with me, I'd strongly suggest keeping it to the game itself and not attacking the messenger.

This time, the messenger's swingin' back. Don't force me to do that. Discuss the concerns civilly or step off.

Gryshnozk dodges Dainan's swing skillfully and launches a heavy body blow, while praying to the great dragon that it will land, hoping to slow down his movement.
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