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#16 Report | Quote[en] 

Ignoring the upcoming "marauder benefits", I think the historic rationale for fame changes would be this:

In the past, ALL fame increases have been potentially beneficial and all fame decreases potentially detrimental. Thus, according to effort => reward logic, you needed to slowly work to increase any fame (i.e., see benefit). Similarly, decreases in fame could be instantaneous; you simply needed to anger the authorities to catastrophically decrease fame (i.e., see detriment).

Fundamentally fame increases and decreases have never been a symmetrical affair because rewards are slowly accumulated and punishments are swift and decisive (just like IRL). Don't confuse changing +50 > +100 with changing -50 > -100. The former takes a lifetime of "good works". The latter simply requires one heinous crime.

P.S. Obtaining the upcoming "marauder benefits" are inconsistent with this logic. But then again, the current efforts to inject a 3rd faction into the game seem to be introducing many inconsistencies in the historical precedents of the game.

#17 Report | Quote[en] 

I see the point where it can be somewhat frustrating to only loose fame by aligning. But I agree with Stich, just an example to be more clear on it:

Imagine you are marauder at -100/-100 religion fame and at some point deceide to give karavan a try. After becoming karavan you reconsider and revoke to become a marauder again. Kamis shouldn't grant you some free 50 fame points for doing so.

From the RP point of view i would say bad alignment is more memorable than stopping to do so.

#18 Report | Quote[en] 

Looking at this from a real world perspective: Would you grant your most wanted criminal (-100 fame) any amount of clemency just because they stopped being affiliated with another group you consider enemies?

Having said that, from an entertainment standpoint there is little sense in continuing to "punish" players who are trying to raise fame from negative levels.

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Eldest, Order of the White Lotus

#19 Report | Quote[en] 

Gorran
Looking at this from a real world perspective: Would you grant your most wanted criminal (-100 fame) any amount of clemency just because they stopped being affiliated with another group you consider enemies?

I thought we were talking religions. Isn't forgivenees the most basic tenet of most religions ?

No lets talk serious real life perspectives......Your a Red Sox (baseball) fan and ya hate the Yankees. Alex Rodriguez gets traded to the Red Sox.....batting .342, 54 HRs and 164 RBIs.....ya love em or hate him ? :) Substitute your favorite sport, most well known player, and biggest rivalry if not a baeball fan.

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#20 Report | Quote[en] 

Fyrosfreddy
Gorran
Looking at this from a real world perspective: Would you grant your most wanted criminal (-100 fame) any amount of clemency just because they stopped being affiliated with another group you consider enemies?

I thought we were talking religions. Isn't forgivenees the most basic tenet of most religions ?

No lets talk serious real life perspectives......Your a Red Sox (baseball) fan and ya hate the Yankees. Alex Rodriguez gets traded to the Red Sox.....batting .342, 54 HRs and 164 RBIs.....ya love em or hate him ? :) Substitute your favorite sport, most well known player, and biggest rivalry if not a baeball fan.

Gak, hate sports. :)

As far as comparing Kami/Karavan to RL religion & forgiveness: Most places of worship don't have temple guards that kill non-believers (negative fame) on sight. :D I also went with the criminal aspect to specifically avoid dancing on religion . . . "Danger, Will Robinson, danger!"

Having said that and thinking about what you wrote does suggest a very simple way to help those with extreme negative fame: Kami and Karavan versions of missionaries. If your fame is below -50 and you are neutral cult, then you can serve (do missions for) these Kami/Karavan that will raise your fame to -50. From there, you would have to raise your fame further in the usual way.

Possible scenario:
Must renounce opposite cult alignment. If you are a Disciple or Follower then these missions are not available.
Must visit the Kami/Karavan missionary/recruiter in each land and complete their missions.
Missions are to kill 2 enemy tribe members from each enemy tribe in each region in that land.
Once all missions from all lands are complete, fame is raised to -50.

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Eldest, Order of the White Lotus

#21 Report | Quote[en] 

Any progress would be welcomed. A drop from -100 to -50 seems extreme except for the fact tha it is exactly what happens on the positive side. I think it would also help the balance issue. Back in the day when one or the other faction was dominant, many individuals and even guilds decided to swap sides "for the fun of it". Don't see that happening at -100.

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