IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Now, now two days I don't read the forums and somebody got certainly naughty:) You make me really curious with all the deleted posts heheh.
Coming back to the subject:

Let's forget about newer players for a moment. For the digger who knows to avoid the KP this means retreating to a safe place and waiting 1-8 minutes until they are gone. The weather is already the strongest time sink in the game. Overlayering it with another time sink is... umm the snake with legs?

The game was enriched over the last years with 2 kinds of NPC bosses. All this is guild/crowd content. Where is the need then to transform the deep PR into another crowd content _only_ area?

Finetuning has to take into consideration people dragging alts along and refer to them as well. All proposals talking about killing the KP ignore the solo content of the PR. The alts team people put a two folded problem. An easy one, related to 125 free to play healers. And a harder one of 250 payed bots. Free to play accounts can easily be made not able to heal in the q250 PR. Payed for alts are a bigger problem because this game needs their subscription but not to the point of hurting the community. There should be always alternatives to encourage people to pay while not giving them major advantages over the normal 1 account player.

I have a baaad feeling that part of those who voted for "don't touch it" were scared of possible new bugs introduced with any modification. I just hope I'm not too optimist in contradicting them,)

Finally something as strong as the KPs should be connected to the lore in a more epic way. I cannot bring myself to find any immersion in random kitin families wandering aimlessly but on a precise time schedule in all the areas. Have KPs guard something, a mistery, certain ruins, or the entrance to a special content instance. The KPs should be meaningful.

Honestly I wouldn't vote "remove" if I didn't feel the mass jumping on "leave them as they are" needed some balancing.:) See, there is an "Emperor's New Clothes" symptom that some are trying to trigger. Saying the KTs may be a negative feature for the game opens you to the suspicion you are not able to dig/hunt with them in place. But at the end of the day... nobody has to prove anything to shout: "the Emperor is naked!"

if you are talking about leaving one alive and just losing aggro on it, it is hardly killing them so they dont respawn ;)

No, one doesn't vote for fear of change (hello Faa!).

It's quite possible to dig solo even in the Kitin Lair if you're lucky. The place is horrible, and it's consistent with what you expect in a Lair, with larvae and eggs being watched by understandably overprotective kitin. You have a very strong probability of ending up with maximum deepee if your luck is down. There are methods to clear the way, and times of day when it's easier to dig the mats that are difficult to reach during daytime. Even an organized team down there won't be able to survive if every critter goes wild with rage, which does happen on occasion. Horrible place.

Comparatively, Prime Roots has lots of room to run to. Once you've gotten acquainted with the areas in all seasons, you tend to recognize trouble and develop an inner timer for those patrolling kirostas. That timer is usually badly thrown off by private discussions or entertaining guild chatter, but a properly set radar and regular distance checks can go a long way. And should death occur, it can be an opportunity to respawn at a portal and access other types of mats. Travelling down to the Roots expecting to obtain precisely what one intends to is always overly optimistic. One moves around, tries several areas, adapt.

It becomes a skill, or a habit. There's areas you don't want to meet a Patrol in, and need to check your macro for Patrol distance quite often, and other venues where you know which direction to face, knowing Patrols will come only from there. Relatively clear areas let you use auras to escape from a Patrol after being spotted. Digging in Prime Roots has you on edge all the time, look over your shoulder constantly, and get annoyed when that one mat you wanted just popped and a Patrol appears.

As for team activities, Câline said it all. Patrols make poor teamwork very noticeable, and therefore challenge homins to be more organized, attentive, knowledgeable. Mayhem can be quite funny, or perhaps fantastically annoying, if one thinks every action must have a result proportional to the effort put in... Which is a matter of perception and expectations.

I for one welcome the variety. I like the Patrols because they make Prime Roots entertaining.

By the way, the Kirostas currently have a vision of about 65m. When they were originally reintroduced, it was much higher (120m, if I remember correctly), which felt completely impossible to manage.

As one of those who voted "leave them as they are"...

I honestly think that they should neither be removed nor reduced in amount.
I might have voted "other" if I'd had a good idea on how to change them.

Some of the ideas mentioned don't sound too bad, but before I comment on them I'd like to address something else.

They have been a part of the Prime Roots from the very beginning, but at some point in time free PvP had been introduced in Umbra and at that point in time they were removed from all the prime roots (instead of just Umbra) and I know a lot of players from back then that said that the PR would get too easy afterwards (most of them have left a long time ago though)

Now on to the other suggestions:
I like this suggestion. When I read the original sugestion by Gasket I thought about the normal named mobs but the patrols in the kitin lair would be a much better fit.

An other time frame I'd like to suggest would be the remaining time between their death and the "end" of their route plus lets say 5 mins.
Lets say it takes them 30 mins to run the full course from start to end and they are killed after 10 mins. then the respawn would take 25 mins.
If they are killed just befre finnishing their tour (30 mins) it would be just the additional extra 5 mins for a respawn (they didn't report back, so the queen sends a new patrol)
I wouldn't mind if they were removed/reduced in Umbra - but don't reduce the amount of them in the other regions!
Would be OK as well for me.

<snip>

And for the topic:

I think Heckla explain it quite nicely. PR is where i spend most of my time
in the game. players need to take the time to learn when and where you
can move, dig or boss hunts. I said it a lot of times Is not imposible and
yes is difficult and is meant to be that way.

If you think just because you have mastered a few skills you will be great
dealing with PR, then you are in for a rude awakening.. PR is the place
where it shows your weakness as a solo and as a team even more.

I consider PR the End Game of Ryzom and you can never really mastered it
and just asking to make changes just to make it easy for a few is a cop out
to the new players that will not experience what PR is supposed to be about.

It seems to me, Monje, that what you said is part of the debate that is going on here. You seem so certain in your claim that you know what "PR is supposed to be about." Other people have other ideas and are proposing changes varying from status quo ante to tweaking of the current KP. (Yes, I realize that no KP in PR was a change from an even earlier situation, but it's the one I came in on, four plus years ago.)

I really love the beauty of PR -- the sounds, the drifting motes of light, the magical flora/fauna. What I don't like is the stiff back that I have at the end of a digging session in PR. When I used to go down there before the KP it was still plenty dangerous with wandering Named and wide-ranging aggro, now it's actively painful. Right now it's really not all that reasonable to *learn* the higher levels of PR without a guide (and I would like to thank the people who are being my guides right now). Certainly there is very little chance to sit back and enjoy the aesthetic reward of simply being in PR, even with a guide.

I do not know what your "purpose" is being in PR is, Yakapo, but some of us would like to be able to sight-see. It's not all boss-hunts and digging sup mats for some of us.

I like some of the suggestions that are being made, especially those that seek to link the KP into a more Lore-sourced configuration and the one for a semi-random timer that would allow for a respawn that isn't near instantaneous. There are other things I'd like to change about them, but those are very unlikely to come to pass so I'll not mention them.

With respect
-- Bittty

For me the presence of danger is a very important part of being in PR. I love the atmophere, landscape and wildlife down there. And i think KPs fit very well into the scenery.

I agree with those who argued getting around in PR is something like a skill you have to master seperately. I started digging PR when KPs were still around the first time. I did choose to master the getting around skill before any other and succeeded. I always said it wouldn't matter if i got 3000 or 1000 hp when getting caught by a KP by surprise. That was - of course - only partially right as it is getting easier with better running and invulnerability skills. I missed KPs when they were gone and thought it got too easy.

Now KPs are back but they are alot different from what they were. Some places are almost impossible to travel alone without running and invulnerability skills because there are so many KPs. And those places are not diggable alone. But those are very few places and i can accept that, i'll just pass through and dig elsewhere. There are so many safe places - i use them to wait for the right weather - where you can enjoy the PR atmosphere, landscape and wildlife to the fullest without being killed by KPs. I don't think that PR are meant as a region where you can wander about everywhere without risk.

Some time ago i made a new toon on arispotle and needed to get PR tps. And I can confirm: all you need to get around is the getting around skill and some mid-level running and invulnerability.

PS.: Some respawn delay would be nice anyway.

Well Bitty then you are not discussing what the topic of this discutions was created for.
This discussion didnt start about wanted to enjoy the sights or relax or anything like it;

this dicussion is about Solo want them remove or reduce them for smaller groups
and is been proven you can kill and navigate all of PR with 1 team.

And now that the poll shows they should remains as they are.

you ask for another to be open cause we didnt agree with it.

then say we cannot dig cause of the KP yet is been told by different players
that it is posible.

and to refreshed your memory here is topic of discussion:

Monje, i never wanted rid of them. As i have said numerous times, i think they are overkill in certain areas.

I can deal with them, I can dig sups and kill bosses, however I feel it has ruined PR for some players. It was an open discussion that can take any slant it wants.

For someone to explain how they like PR and you to tell them it doesnt relate to this topic is just plain wrong.

My point stands valid, A slight change would be nice....respawn timers and movement. Simple enough change.

sure sounds like you wanted to be rid of them to me.

Poll results are not as clear as they may seem at the first glance.

I took the work and compared the posts of the last two pages with the poll. At least Daomei, Jarnys and me think it would be fine to have some respawn delay or other minor tweaks, which should move us from "leave them as they are" to "other... explain in thread".

so summed up... after discussion (did not consider pages 1-3)

33 want no changes at all
36 want large or minor changes
3 don't take a vote
as of today.

That makes it a pretty close poll and continued discussion might make sense.

Please keep any further posts on topic and relevant, or this topic will be locked.

There are a lot of players in game that agrees with reducing or altering their paths, because sometimes 3 KP patrols go over 1 spot, however they haven't voted or seen this thread.

It would be nice to see some compromise.

There is not a single mat or boss that you can not kill due to the KP's, all you need is a little patience and choose the right oppertunity, you can dig in certain areas of PR and you wont see aKP for along time, other areas you will have a few min to prospect, dig and get out. Or to pull a boss to a safer location.

Just spend a little time learning the routes and timings of the KP and you will see that there is absolutley no issue with them at all. What it means is that PR is harder and not as safe as other regions, well wasn't that meant to be the whole point?

We asked for years for the KP's to be brought back into the game, now they are people want them changed, no real supirse I guess.

Personaly I think that KP should comprise on Kinrey instead of Kirosta, it would make it easier for others to spam a /tar macro to spot them coming, even though they are easy enough to spot int he compass.