Control of multiple characters in OP Battles. - English

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#126 Added by Yakapo 1 decade ago [en]

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This thread has gone on long enough. So I will explain our tactics to you and you can take your view from there. Let's take just TI for example as we are all on vent and working together. As you all know that coordinating many people is a hard task to achieve, but by taking some of the guess work out by a few people will take your efforts to a entire new level. TI usually comes to battle or NPC hunts with 3-4 full teams and our way of getting people to work as one is as follows.
1 Team Lead -- Selects targets of Agro or Dead homins.
2 The Rest of the teams sets up as follows. They make 3 basic macros and uses nothing but these. First In game macro of the following setups. step One target entity's current target *team lead name here*. Second Step. Run shortcut with your nuke spell in it. Third Step Run Short with a rez spell in it. What this setup acheives is the following it will nuke your team leads target if its attackable or rez them if it's a dead Homin all in one key press.
Second Macro for the rest of the team. First step Target Entity *someone in team* Second step. run shortcut for the spot with a bomb heal HP/HP for 8.
Third Macro for the rest of the team. First step target Enity *team lead name* Second step Chat, Talk anybody, Say /follow.

Now every team member uses these 3 keys, Yes it may sound boring and blah blah but its effective and it only takes a few people to get to work together which is a lot easier then getting 40 people to work as one.

So I can see how this setup would look like a bot. When it is in fact a bunch of people nukeing or healing off of the key people's target. So what you guys call cheating on our part is just simple lack of using the tools you have available to you.

Last edited by Yakapo (1 decade ago)

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#127 Added by Liliang 1 decade ago [en]

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YAK! Why are you giving away our secrets!? Now the kara are going to copy our setup and start winning. :(

./unsubscribes
./uninstalls

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The fail whale!

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My name is Lil, but you may call me Your Majesty. ;)

#128 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en]

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Because its not just 2 of us with concerns. Karavan is losing players because of a growing perception of indifference. A public response is the only thing that can put that to rest. Over the last month or 2 I have seen and heard an awful lot of "Tickets have been sent, dont bother", "CSR's dont care, dont bother", "If theres an OP involved they dont want to know". Im not saying I believe any of it but this is the perception that is causing a lot of people to stop showing up at OP's and thats not good for either of us.

Would just like the simple question answered publicly not just for myself, or my guild, or my friends, but for anyone with similar concerns. That extends to those people who have accused me of using 3rd party software or botting. If Mokoi can tell us what kind of evidence is needed to get further investigation, those people can send me a tell and ill let them know when and where ill be digging so that they too can gather evidence.

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#129 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en]

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Yakapo

This thread has gone on long enough. So I will explain our tactics to you and you can take your view from there....... So I can see how this setup would look like a bot. When it is in fact a bunch of people nukeing or healing off of the key people's target. So what you guys call cheating on our part is just simple lack of using the tools you have available to you.

First reasonable explanation I have seen for how your group looks on our side, and a very calm response from someone who has been openly accused of cheating. Would also be very easy for CSRs to determine whether that is the case or not. I dont know about everyone else but its good enough for me. I withdraw my earlier accusation.

I would still like to see a response from Mokoi about what is or is not accepted in a ticket as evidence when someone is suspected of using 3rd party software.

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#130 Added by Erizon(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en]

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Beeficus

Erizon
All of these things help the advanced player significantly speed up activities, and could be seen by the unwashed masses of mouth-breathing keyboard-turners as God-like synchronization that must be illegal.

When you are complaining about other peoples posts causing drama you may consider wording your own more carefully. There is a clear difference between speed and synchronicity and suggesting that we are too unevolved to see it is just argumentative.

I was suggesting exactly that, yes. You guys started this drama thread, CSRs didn't see fit to close it, so now, tired of unmitigated crying, I want to have fun and poke at the "idiocrity" running rampant through this thread.

You get your panties in a wad whenever you start losing outposts, or die in PR, or lose in PvP, or in any situation where you don't win. You act no better than spoiled, self-absorbed, entitled children who can't accept that you're not always the best at everything. In that light, when it's not possible for someone to be "better" than you, anyone who DOES happen to beat you must be cheating. Get over yourselves.

Beeficus

What you seem to be implying is that there is no possible way to prove 3rd party software use and therefor the rule is unenforceable. If that is the case I would like to hear it from Mokoi. Please keep in mind questions here are being posed to him for an official answer and your responses have not addressed them, even if you could speak on his behalf.

No, I wasn't implying anything of the sort. I'm directly stating that 1) It's possible (likely) they're just better than you, and 2) It's possible (likely) that they have learned how to set up their gaming environments to out-perform you.

If I was implying anything, I was implying that you have to have VERY good evidence to prove that they aren't capable of doing this manually. I was also supplying reasonable doubt, which at least in the United States is enough to acquit someone from murder charges. This is just a game (remember? game?)

This thread didn't start asking Mokoi for clarification. It started with some alt dragging Yaka and Nit out in front of the court of public opinion and asking for people to comment (ie: drama), convicting them so that CSR had very little they had to do but ban them. This thread should have been closed at that time for trolling and drama, but maybe the CSRs wanted a chuckle too, like the rest of us.

#131 Added by Garla(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en]

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is Idioticry a word? if it isnt it should be :) (there that is some real trolling for you)

#132 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en]

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Erizon

You get your panties in a wad whenever you start losing outposts, or die in PR, or lose in PvP, or in any situation where you don't win. You act no better than spoiled, self-absorbed, entitled children who can't accept that you're not always the best at everything. In that light, when it's not possible for someone to be "better" than you, anyone who DOES happen to beat you must be cheating. Get over yourselves.

Interesting response. I would like to point out that you are directing this at an entire faction and condemning our concerns as nonsense because of something you may have read from someone else in the past. I did not start this thread but I clearly stated my specific concerns, and what I wanted which was clarification from CSR's throughout my posts.

You would do well to keep your head in the future. I have been repeatedly trolled and flamed for voicing my concerns and have not trolled, flamed or harrassed anyone in return. Outbursts like your previous posts and Amnesias most recent post really say more about yourselves than the people they are directed at. If you are going to use real life similes like reasonable doubt in a murder trial, your comments here can be likened to a series of offensive racial slurs.

In the future if you are going to respond to my posts, please do so without your prejudice against my faction and read my words as they are written, not as you think they might be intended.

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#133 Added by Liliang 1 decade ago [en]

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Erizon

All of these things help the advanced player significantly speed up activities, and could be seen by the unwashed masses of mouth-breathing keyboard-turners as God-like synchronization that must be illegal.

GOD-LIKE SYNCHRONIZATION.
You're argument is invalid.
:)

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#134 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en]

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Beeficus

No matter how many PC's and how much you spend on them you can only press keys on so many keyboards at once without growing extra arms.

I once again, stand corrected.

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#135 Added by Garla(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en]

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not really on topic, but I dont see how they could prove it after thinking about it. the only way they could is to put in something that monitors what keys you physiccally hit on your keyboard and I am pretty sure that is illegal. as it could be used to find out all sorts of things I dont want them knowing, such as passwords to other things.

#136 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en]

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It would be a simple matter to check server logs to determine if all the characters shown to be following one player were each logged in from seperate IP's, and if they are the same as the IP's those accounts are regularly logged from.

Not completely fool-proof but its one way.

Anyway, I will bow out of this thread now as the original point has been addressed, Mokoi has responded, and the argument seems to pretty much have been put to rest. I am satisfied that my claims of cheating could very well have been wrong, and I apologise. I hope its enough for everyone else who is concerned as well.

Last edited by Beeficus (1 decade ago)

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#137 Added by Yakapo 1 decade ago [en]

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Beeficus

It would be a simple matter to check server logs to determine if all the characters shown to be following one player were each logged in from seperate IP's, and if they are the same as the IP's those accounts are regularly logged from.

Not completely fool-proof but its one way.

And what about my House where my Wife and Sister log in from?

Last edited by Yakapo (1 decade ago)

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#138 Added by Liliang 1 decade ago [en]

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Yakapo is my brother, and i play on my laptop from his house quite often, does that mean that i shouldn't be able to dig with my CP slave and Yakapo and Keeblerelf doing things aswell? What about when my niece plays on her toon? This isn't a full-proof system and could be easily mistaken.

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#139 Added by Garla(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en]

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Beeficus

It would be a simple matter to check server logs to determine if all the characters shown to be following one player were each logged in from seperate IP's, and if they are the same as the IP's those accounts are regularly logged from.

Not completely fool-proof but its one way.

hmm suppose so, if they did a long term trend. I actually do have RL friends who play that I go visit and play on my lappy sometimes

#140 Added by Erizon(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en]

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Liliang

(stuff)

*laugh* That thread was a fun read on the EVE-O forums. It was blown out of proportion even more than this one, though there the crying there tended to be a slightly higher level. Thanks for reminding me of that picture =)

Garla

(stuff)

You can detect key-sharing software, though the inherent latency between France and the civilized world does make it difficult. For a botting program to be sufficiently random to evade detection, it would have to become at least equal, but likely inferior, to human behaviour. Then it's less of a problem and more like something to ridicule, since you might as well do it yourself at that point.

And WoW's Warden shows that companies can put quite a lot into software as long as you agree to install it. For better or worse. They would need to be VERY certain they only touch data related to their game and enforcing specifics about their acceptable use policies to avoid lawsuits.

If such detection doesn't exist for Ryzom already, developers would need to discuss the benefits of such functionality versus the cost of development time, and decide if it's worth implementing. Or, just come up with a way to receive the same benefits of outposts yet not pit player vs player, since it seems some just can't handle that kind of pressure.

Beeficus

(stuff about client IP addresses)

That would really only address account sharing, a completely different topic than your drama thread, and not very well. But boy howdy would THAT be enlightening (on both sides) =)

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