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#121 Added by Erizon(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en] 

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Beeficus
Mokoi, thank you for your response, could you please clarify what will be accepted as "conclusive evidence"? This is the issue. Due to your policy of steering well clear of OP battles, CSR's have declined to show up to "witness such activities". The topic here is the alleged use of 3rd party software to control many accounts during OP battles, to gain a substantial advantage that is proving extremely difficult to overcome.

What I have seen as well as many others cannot be explained by things like "uber gaming setups". No matter how many PC's and how much you spend on them you can only press keys on so many keyboards at once without growing extra arms. We feel that If it was witnessed from our point of view it would be undeniable.

If you have submitted your evidence, and it is not something that could be tampered with (sadly, I wouldn't discount that from some people in this game), then it will be dealt with. That doesn't mean what you believe to be conclusive and rock-solid evidence really -is- rock-solid and conclusive. It could simply be that there are players who are more capable than you are or more capable than you think possible. Try playing some Koreans in Starcraft for a good example of that.

The CSRs also have the benefit of non-interested third party, meaning they aren't emotionally charged from winning or losing outpost battles, and probably aren't interested in cats at all either. From that perspective, things can look quite different.

Unless, of course, you are claiming something else ... ? But even with that, this isn't the forum for making such claims. If you have issues with the CSRs, there's an email address (which escapes me) that you can use for complaints about CSRs.

The forums is not the way to resolve any potential rules-breaking issue. We do not live by mob rule here, and things are not decided by the court of public opinion. This is not Wall Street -- even there, you see how well that's working.

Submit your proof and accept that the CSRs are doing their jobs.
If you don't believe that to be true, take evidence of CSR misconduct or favouritism to the next level, and trust that those contacts will do their jobs.

If you STILL don't like what's happening, maybe it's not something wrong with the players, the CSRs, or the game.

Now, please, follow the rules and stop the drama.

#122 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en] 

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Thank you Erizon but as you can see from the post you quoted, I have a specific question for Mokoi that requires a public answer. There is no drama in that question and its not one you are in a position to answer for him.

Everybody should be able to understand clearly what is going to be considered to be evidence conclusive enough for further action to be taken. This is not simply for the benefit of any one group, or for use against any one group. Knowing what to send with tickets will avoid in the future massive amounts of useless evidence being submitted, ignored and the perception of indifference. Therefore it is in the best interests of everyone for a clarification to be public rather than discussed privately.

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#123 Added by Erizon(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en] 

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Gorran
Just to clarity, one key press per client is the ruling factor then?

My understanding is that, generally speaking, regardless of whatever software you use, regardless of how many key-presses you make, that you must manually enter commands to each client that you are using.

For example, software that allows you to share mouse and keyboard between computers wouldn't be in violation, since you still have to push buttons or click the mouse on each client. Having multiple clients running in windowed mode on one computer is not a violation of the rules either, even if all you have displayed on each one is the action bar. Mapping extra keyboard or mouse buttons to -single- key-presses in Ryzom would also not be in violation (unconfirmed). Configuring your desktop UI so that the current window under the mouse always and immediately gains focus is also not in violation.

All of these things help the advanced player significantly speed up activities, and could be seen by the unwashed masses of mouth-breathing keyboard-turners as God-like synchronization that must be illegal.


Software that allows you to push a button on one computer or client, and have that (or any) button be pushed on another computer or client automatically is what is in violation. For example, the use of some sort of key duplication software so that when you push button "1" on your main character, it causes button "1" to be pushed on all your other characters would be against Ryzom rules (and that of most games). Mapping keys or mouse buttons outside to multiple key-presses would also be in violation.

Basically, you control each character directly, even if all you are doing is passing a mouse over a window at a very fast speed and pushing a button corresponding to a targeting macro on each one as you go by. You could probably run more than 7 or 8 clients this way and have accurate and fast control over them, if the computer itself could handle it. High-end gaming systems can handle that.

#124 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en] 

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Erizon
All of these things help the advanced player significantly speed up activities, and could be seen by the unwashed masses of mouth-breathing keyboard-turners as God-like synchronization that must be illegal.

When you are complaining about other peoples posts causing drama you may consider wording your own more carefully. There is a clear difference between speed and synchronicity and suggesting that we are too unevolved to see it is just argumentative.

What you seem to be implying is that there is no possible way to prove 3rd party software use and therefor the rule is unenforceable. If that is the case I would like to hear it from Mokoi. Please keep in mind questions here are being posed to him for an official answer and your responses have not addressed them, even if you could speak on his behalf.

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#125 Added by Kwipers 1 decade ago [en] 

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Seems to me that you could have just went to Mokoi with your "questions" Beeficus/Ganix and not personally attack two people and cause drama that the CSR's are going to love going though again on a topic that has been dealt with almost a year ago.

i can tell you that the CSR's were/are doing there jobs when it comes to this, but you are not gonna believe what you read here unless its from a CSR so why even make a public post about it?

#126 Added by Yakapo 1 decade ago [en] 

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This thread has gone on long enough. So I will explain our tactics to you and you can take your view from there. Let's take just TI for example as we are all on vent and working together. As you all know that coordinating many people is a hard task to achieve, but by taking some of the guess work out by a few people will take your efforts to a entire new level. TI usually comes to battle or NPC hunts with 3-4 full teams and our way of getting people to work as one is as follows.
1 Team Lead -- Selects targets of Agro or Dead homins.
2 The Rest of the teams sets up as follows. They make 3 basic macros and uses nothing but these. First In game macro of the following setups. step One target entity's current target *team lead name here*. Second Step. Run shortcut with your nuke spell in it. Third Step Run Short with a rez spell in it. What this setup acheives is the following it will nuke your team leads target if its attackable or rez them if it's a dead Homin all in one key press.
Second Macro for the rest of the team. First step Target Entity *someone in team* Second step. run shortcut for the spot with a bomb heal HP/HP for 8.
Third Macro for the rest of the team. First step target Enity *team lead name* Second step Chat, Talk anybody, Say /follow.

Now every team member uses these 3 keys, Yes it may sound boring and blah blah but its effective and it only takes a few people to get to work together which is a lot easier then getting 40 people to work as one.

So I can see how this setup would look like a bot. When it is in fact a bunch of people nukeing or healing off of the key people's target. So what you guys call cheating on our part is just simple lack of using the tools you have available to you.

Last edited by Yakapo (1 decade ago)

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#127 Added by Liliang 1 decade ago [en] 

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YAK! Why are you giving away our secrets!? Now the kara are going to copy our setup and start winning. :(

./unsubscribes
./uninstalls

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The fail whale!

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My name is Lil, but you may call me Your Majesty. ;)

#128 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en] 

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Because its not just 2 of us with concerns. Karavan is losing players because of a growing perception of indifference. A public response is the only thing that can put that to rest. Over the last month or 2 I have seen and heard an awful lot of "Tickets have been sent, dont bother", "CSR's dont care, dont bother", "If theres an OP involved they dont want to know". Im not saying I believe any of it but this is the perception that is causing a lot of people to stop showing up at OP's and thats not good for either of us.

Would just like the simple question answered publicly not just for myself, or my guild, or my friends, but for anyone with similar concerns. That extends to those people who have accused me of using 3rd party software or botting. If Mokoi can tell us what kind of evidence is needed to get further investigation, those people can send me a tell and ill let them know when and where ill be digging so that they too can gather evidence.

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#129 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en] 

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Yakapo
This thread has gone on long enough. So I will explain our tactics to you and you can take your view from there....... So I can see how this setup would look like a bot. When it is in fact a bunch of people nukeing or healing off of the key people's target. So what you guys call cheating on our part is just simple lack of using the tools you have available to you.

First reasonable explanation I have seen for how your group looks on our side, and a very calm response from someone who has been openly accused of cheating. Would also be very easy for CSRs to determine whether that is the case or not. I dont know about everyone else but its good enough for me. I withdraw my earlier accusation.

I would still like to see a response from Mokoi about what is or is not accepted in a ticket as evidence when someone is suspected of using 3rd party software.

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#130 Added by Erizon(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en] 

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Beeficus
Erizon
All of these things help the advanced player significantly speed up activities, and could be seen by the unwashed masses of mouth-breathing keyboard-turners as God-like synchronization that must be illegal.

When you are complaining about other peoples posts causing drama you may consider wording your own more carefully. There is a clear difference between speed and synchronicity and suggesting that we are too unevolved to see it is just argumentative.

I was suggesting exactly that, yes. You guys started this drama thread, CSRs didn't see fit to close it, so now, tired of unmitigated crying, I want to have fun and poke at the "idiocrity" running rampant through this thread.

You get your panties in a wad whenever you start losing outposts, or die in PR, or lose in PvP, or in any situation where you don't win. You act no better than spoiled, self-absorbed, entitled children who can't accept that you're not always the best at everything. In that light, when it's not possible for someone to be "better" than you, anyone who DOES happen to beat you must be cheating. Get over yourselves.

Beeficus
What you seem to be implying is that there is no possible way to prove 3rd party software use and therefor the rule is unenforceable. If that is the case I would like to hear it from Mokoi. Please keep in mind questions here are being posed to him for an official answer and your responses have not addressed them, even if you could speak on his behalf.

No, I wasn't implying anything of the sort. I'm directly stating that 1) It's possible (likely) they're just better than you, and 2) It's possible (likely) that they have learned how to set up their gaming environments to out-perform you.

If I was implying anything, I was implying that you have to have VERY good evidence to prove that they aren't capable of doing this manually. I was also supplying reasonable doubt, which at least in the United States is enough to acquit someone from murder charges. This is just a game (remember? game?)

This thread didn't start asking Mokoi for clarification. It started with some alt dragging Yaka and Nit out in front of the court of public opinion and asking for people to comment (ie: drama), convicting them so that CSR had very little they had to do but ban them. This thread should have been closed at that time for trolling and drama, but maybe the CSRs wanted a chuckle too, like the rest of us.

#131 Added by Garla(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en] 

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is Idioticry a word? if it isnt it should be :) (there that is some real trolling for you)

#132 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en] 

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Erizon
You get your panties in a wad whenever you start losing outposts, or die in PR, or lose in PvP, or in any situation where you don't win. You act no better than spoiled, self-absorbed, entitled children who can't accept that you're not always the best at everything. In that light, when it's not possible for someone to be "better" than you, anyone who DOES happen to beat you must be cheating. Get over yourselves.

Interesting response. I would like to point out that you are directing this at an entire faction and condemning our concerns as nonsense because of something you may have read from someone else in the past. I did not start this thread but I clearly stated my specific concerns, and what I wanted which was clarification from CSR's throughout my posts.

You would do well to keep your head in the future. I have been repeatedly trolled and flamed for voicing my concerns and have not trolled, flamed or harrassed anyone in return. Outbursts like your previous posts and Amnesias most recent post really say more about yourselves than the people they are directed at. If you are going to use real life similes like reasonable doubt in a murder trial, your comments here can be likened to a series of offensive racial slurs.

In the future if you are going to respond to my posts, please do so without your prejudice against my faction and read my words as they are written, not as you think they might be intended.

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#133 Added by Liliang 1 decade ago [en] 

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Erizon
All of these things help the advanced player significantly speed up activities, and could be seen by the unwashed masses of mouth-breathing keyboard-turners as God-like synchronization that must be illegal.



GOD-LIKE SYNCHRONIZATION.
You're argument is invalid.
:)

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.
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The fail whale!

▄██████████████▄▐█▄▄▄▄█▌
██████▌▄▌▄▐▐▌███▌▀▀██▀▀
████▄█▌▄▌▄▐▐▌▀███▄▄█▌
▄▄▄▄▄██████████████▀

My name is Lil, but you may call me Your Majesty. ;)

#134 Added by Beeficus 1 decade ago [en] 

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Beeficus
No matter how many PC's and how much you spend on them you can only press keys on so many keyboards at once without growing extra arms.

I once again, stand corrected.

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#135 Added by Garla(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en] 

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not really on topic, but I dont see how they could prove it after thinking about it. the only way they could is to put in something that monitors what keys you physiccally hit on your keyboard and I am pretty sure that is illegal. as it could be used to find out all sorts of things I dont want them knowing, such as passwords to other things.
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