Im have not been and have no intention of trying to argue that you are wrong here ... Your points are valid based upon the assumptions you've made. But I think you will find that those assumptions do not serve well.
1&3. The seat belt example is a false equivalancy. We are both doing DMs and both have had failures. This is simple math / science and mathematics ... just like work :) . The accuracy of any predicted outcome is based upon sample size ... like polls... a sample size of 1000, will produce greater accuracy then a sample, size of 100. A sample size across all relevant demographics will be more accurate than one that isn't. We can't give an accurate estimation of drowning deaths by sampling the population of Prudoe Bay Alaska and a sampling of 10,000 people will be more accurate than 100. Statistics is a science, that science has it's rules and that science produces consistent and reliable results.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/mp/margin-of-error-calculator/
I have done DMs every day since day 1 and due to the less than 24 hour cooldown I prolly picked up an extra 1 or 2. You said you do 4 days a week and lets assume you also started day 1. So if I have done 280 missions, you have done 160. Using the referenced standard statistival error calculator, and a year's worth of daily missions (2,550) as our yearly mission count, my margin of error with my sampling size is 6%. Your margin of error with your smaller sampling size is 8%.... Not huge, but not equal either ... 33% more
But more importantly , "where's the beef". If we both did NH, we'd wind up with about 163 crystals. If we did DMs, we'd have 1050 crystals with 7 successful missions. Your 13% is a bit less than 1 a day so lets call it consertaively and give ya the edge of 1 failure a day (14.2%) ... so with 1 failure per day, your getting a bit more than 900 crystals per day on average.
In short, there's absolutely nothing to concede here... the reality actually is that a) larger sampling size = more accuracy and b) being "goal oriented" you are far exceeding you previous goal as DMs, even with the failures factored in, are giving you more crystals per day.
5. This analogy is another false equivalency.
Option 1 - You belong to a dinner theater club and every 2nd Thursday of every month they go to the same theater, see the same show and have the same meal. Same story, same actors, nothing varies.
Option 2 - You belong to a dinner theater club and every 2nd Thursday of every month they go to the a different theater, see a different show and enjoy a different cuisine.
Which group is more knowledgeable ? ... who will be more knowledgeable about the various talents of the actors, writers, directors when evaluating whether to see a new show coming to town ? The knowledge I have gained in the geography, aggro locations, pathways, etc. from doing tribe missions has made me far more capable in traversing the planet safely simply because of the exposure to what I learned.
I learned that traversing EI clockwise is hard ... counterclockwise is easy. Collecting puzzle pieces was a piece of cake as I could navigate many areas far easier than I could before, gaining that knowledge when chasing tribe fame before DMs came about. My survivability rate has improved as a result of doing Tribe Fame. Everything i do in game has benefitted because I have additional knowledge that I didn't have before.
If this doesn't mean beans to you, it is still irrelevant. I think we can agree that a good thing is when the pluses's exceed the minus's. So if it's your position that none of this benefits you in any way, shape or form, then any negative impact that you can present makes your case. Let's look and see if that is actually possible.
As I understand it, your position is that they can shove DMs because NH is better since you can't fail and the DMs fail 13% of the time. That's not been my NH experience. Doing 3 occs and 6 practices per occ in each "sitting" ... I often screw a couple up. So there are failures, my fault but still failures.
You don't need dappers, and you don't need fame so it's clear that you are doing NH for crystals. At 50 fame, you earn 50 nation points per product or 1800 NPs max per day. At 11 points and 11 dappers per QL500 crystal, you can buy (163) Q500 crystals.
Now with the alternate DMs, you earn 18 Elyps for one mission. With your 13% failure rate, you are completing just over an average of 6 mission per day, earning you 108 Elyps. Each stack of 100 QL crystals costs you 12 Elyps, allowing you to buy 900 crystals.
So where's the minus ? With 1 failure per day, how is your goal oriented approach in any way being negatively impacted in any way. When your reward with 1 failure / day, you are exeeding your established goal by a factor of 5.5
Even if you went full on faction / nation with 100 fame, you'd get 655 crystals w/ NH ... so where's the beef when, by doing daily missions w/ one failure per day you are now getting 1.4 times more rewards those 100 fame factioned doods get w/ NH ? Not only are you no longer a 2nd class citizen, you are getting more than them. As it stands now, you need only complete 2 missions per day .. 5 missions could be broken and you'd still be ahead of where you were before.
I'll need you to provide a quote to address the claim that I said "broken is good". No such suggestion has been made. Your taking issue with a "downside" that, as has been demonstrated above, does not exist. It's unfortunate that a small % of missions are broken .
In no way does that say "broken is good", its says "yes some missions are broken, but you are in no way being negatively impacted so there's nuthin to complain about. Do just 2 missions a day and you're ahead of the game ... then go do NH and double up.
So now, what can we do about it ? How can we make it better ?
I have reported each mission that I have been unable to complete. IIRC, 4 have been acknowledged as not possible, for other 3 the response was, "I found them, they can be completed". So maybe my "broken" is really half what I think it is.
One, not in the 7 was completed after another player told me where to look. One I had yesterday, I was unable to complete. The Voracious Wombai I found at ponds by Kami TP there in summer was not in Autumn.... but I had completed it previously. So if I did it in summer and couldn't do it in autumn, is that broken or is that Life in Atys ?
The remaining topics have kinda been rendered moot by the preceding but for clarity
8. I don't see the reasoning. Either something is unbalanced or it isn't. If it's unbalanced in 2004 and still exists in 2009, 2014 or 2019. it's still inbalanced. DMs are not giving you anything less than NH, it's giving you more... much more. More importantly, it's giving everyone the same opportunity. No more imbalance. I expect the rewards will be tweaked as tme goes by ... and the purchase costs are relatively outta whack. Crystals are cheap, Wundahmat ridiculously expensive ...
9. I guess it's because of our different approaches to game that I was unable to adequately convey the perspective in first series of posts. To my eyes, how much you get is not so much te point ... inbalance is a horrible thing.
How would you describe ....
-Having one race that is significantly more powerful than all others
-Having one weapon that is significantly more effective than the others
-Having one class that gets significantly more rewards than the other
My answer to all is "poor game design". A chnage was made... it presented an imbalance, attemps are underway to correct it.
9. Not quite ... It typically takes me an hour or so to collect certs for the most common occupations (Water / Mag Cart). Hard to tell as always interupted by craft requests, out of game obligations ... I timed mag cart once and it was 64 minutes to collect a week's worth of certs. Butcher takes me a good part of a day. Medic and Scrollmake go fast. Toolmaker and Florst take more than they should beause i don't like doing what averyoine else dos and repeatedly abandonong missions i don't like. But then Im done for the week. When doing NH, I'd do 6 practices at one sitting and then do the NH hand ins daily spending 2 minutes aday.
But I havent done NH in about 3 years .... no need for any of the rewards. When Skiy was restoring her NPC Armor Plans, I sold Q70 scrolls for 9999% markup. Best income I have come across so far. Grinding craft left me dumping 10 mill a month in GH. After completing crafts, moved onto tribe fame and that was surprsingly and unexpectedly well compensated. I took 15 propecting missions today for tribe fame and made about 3 - 4 million with 2-3 deliveries thrown in. I been 50-50-50-50 fame since a month after merge.
But the concept of obtaining fame, rewards or dappers ... when needed.... should be proportional to the effort involved. And if one path is alarmingly more poductive than others, then the others for the most part become irrelevant. It's my position that the goal of game design is to provide balance... NH destroyed that, it was recognized and efforts are being made to correct it.
And that is THE reason why after being removed, NH is now back and, I presume, why it exists side by side, wuth DMs. You can do DMs or if you don't like them stick with NH. If you prefer not doing DMs because you run into a broken mission, no one is stopping your from continuing to do NH. This is a test / tweaking period, missions will be fixed, rewards will be tweaked. keep doing NH until the broken mission count is more to your liking. Or keep the staus quo and only attempt 2 missions a day.
1&3. The seat belt example is a false equivalancy. We are both doing DMs and both have had failures. This is simple math / science and mathematics ... just like work :) . The accuracy of any predicted outcome is based upon sample size ... like polls... a sample size of 1000, will produce greater accuracy then a sample, size of 100. A sample size across all relevant demographics will be more accurate than one that isn't. We can't give an accurate estimation of drowning deaths by sampling the population of Prudoe Bay Alaska and a sampling of 10,000 people will be more accurate than 100. Statistics is a science, that science has it's rules and that science produces consistent and reliable results.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/mp/margin-of-error-calculator/
I have done DMs every day since day 1 and due to the less than 24 hour cooldown I prolly picked up an extra 1 or 2. You said you do 4 days a week and lets assume you also started day 1. So if I have done 280 missions, you have done 160. Using the referenced standard statistival error calculator, and a year's worth of daily missions (2,550) as our yearly mission count, my margin of error with my sampling size is 6%. Your margin of error with your smaller sampling size is 8%.... Not huge, but not equal either ... 33% more
But more importantly , "where's the beef". If we both did NH, we'd wind up with about 163 crystals. If we did DMs, we'd have 1050 crystals with 7 successful missions. Your 13% is a bit less than 1 a day so lets call it consertaively and give ya the edge of 1 failure a day (14.2%) ... so with 1 failure per day, your getting a bit more than 900 crystals per day on average.
In short, there's absolutely nothing to concede here... the reality actually is that a) larger sampling size = more accuracy and b) being "goal oriented" you are far exceeding you previous goal as DMs, even with the failures factored in, are giving you more crystals per day.
5. This analogy is another false equivalency.
Option 1 - You belong to a dinner theater club and every 2nd Thursday of every month they go to the same theater, see the same show and have the same meal. Same story, same actors, nothing varies.
Option 2 - You belong to a dinner theater club and every 2nd Thursday of every month they go to the a different theater, see a different show and enjoy a different cuisine.
Which group is more knowledgeable ? ... who will be more knowledgeable about the various talents of the actors, writers, directors when evaluating whether to see a new show coming to town ? The knowledge I have gained in the geography, aggro locations, pathways, etc. from doing tribe missions has made me far more capable in traversing the planet safely simply because of the exposure to what I learned.
I learned that traversing EI clockwise is hard ... counterclockwise is easy. Collecting puzzle pieces was a piece of cake as I could navigate many areas far easier than I could before, gaining that knowledge when chasing tribe fame before DMs came about. My survivability rate has improved as a result of doing Tribe Fame. Everything i do in game has benefitted because I have additional knowledge that I didn't have before.
If this doesn't mean beans to you, it is still irrelevant. I think we can agree that a good thing is when the pluses's exceed the minus's. So if it's your position that none of this benefits you in any way, shape or form, then any negative impact that you can present makes your case. Let's look and see if that is actually possible.
As I understand it, your position is that they can shove DMs because NH is better since you can't fail and the DMs fail 13% of the time. That's not been my NH experience. Doing 3 occs and 6 practices per occ in each "sitting" ... I often screw a couple up. So there are failures, my fault but still failures.
You don't need dappers, and you don't need fame so it's clear that you are doing NH for crystals. At 50 fame, you earn 50 nation points per product or 1800 NPs max per day. At 11 points and 11 dappers per QL500 crystal, you can buy (163) Q500 crystals.
Now with the alternate DMs, you earn 18 Elyps for one mission. With your 13% failure rate, you are completing just over an average of 6 mission per day, earning you 108 Elyps. Each stack of 100 QL crystals costs you 12 Elyps, allowing you to buy 900 crystals.
So where's the minus ? With 1 failure per day, how is your goal oriented approach in any way being negatively impacted in any way. When your reward with 1 failure / day, you are exeeding your established goal by a factor of 5.5
Even if you went full on faction / nation with 100 fame, you'd get 655 crystals w/ NH ... so where's the beef when, by doing daily missions w/ one failure per day you are now getting 1.4 times more rewards those 100 fame factioned doods get w/ NH ? Not only are you no longer a 2nd class citizen, you are getting more than them. As it stands now, you need only complete 2 missions per day .. 5 missions could be broken and you'd still be ahead of where you were before.
I'll need you to provide a quote to address the claim that I said "broken is good". No such suggestion has been made. Your taking issue with a "downside" that, as has been demonstrated above, does not exist. It's unfortunate that a small % of missions are broken .
In no way does that say "broken is good", its says "yes some missions are broken, but you are in no way being negatively impacted so there's nuthin to complain about. Do just 2 missions a day and you're ahead of the game ... then go do NH and double up.
So now, what can we do about it ? How can we make it better ?
I have reported each mission that I have been unable to complete. IIRC, 4 have been acknowledged as not possible, for other 3 the response was, "I found them, they can be completed". So maybe my "broken" is really half what I think it is.
One, not in the 7 was completed after another player told me where to look. One I had yesterday, I was unable to complete. The Voracious Wombai I found at ponds by Kami TP there in summer was not in Autumn.... but I had completed it previously. So if I did it in summer and couldn't do it in autumn, is that broken or is that Life in Atys ?
The remaining topics have kinda been rendered moot by the preceding but for clarity
8. I don't see the reasoning. Either something is unbalanced or it isn't. If it's unbalanced in 2004 and still exists in 2009, 2014 or 2019. it's still inbalanced. DMs are not giving you anything less than NH, it's giving you more... much more. More importantly, it's giving everyone the same opportunity. No more imbalance. I expect the rewards will be tweaked as tme goes by ... and the purchase costs are relatively outta whack. Crystals are cheap, Wundahmat ridiculously expensive ...
9. I guess it's because of our different approaches to game that I was unable to adequately convey the perspective in first series of posts. To my eyes, how much you get is not so much te point ... inbalance is a horrible thing.
How would you describe ....
-Having one race that is significantly more powerful than all others
-Having one weapon that is significantly more effective than the others
-Having one class that gets significantly more rewards than the other
My answer to all is "poor game design". A chnage was made... it presented an imbalance, attemps are underway to correct it.
9. Not quite ... It typically takes me an hour or so to collect certs for the most common occupations (Water / Mag Cart). Hard to tell as always interupted by craft requests, out of game obligations ... I timed mag cart once and it was 64 minutes to collect a week's worth of certs. Butcher takes me a good part of a day. Medic and Scrollmake go fast. Toolmaker and Florst take more than they should beause i don't like doing what averyoine else dos and repeatedly abandonong missions i don't like. But then Im done for the week. When doing NH, I'd do 6 practices at one sitting and then do the NH hand ins daily spending 2 minutes aday.
But I havent done NH in about 3 years .... no need for any of the rewards. When Skiy was restoring her NPC Armor Plans, I sold Q70 scrolls for 9999% markup. Best income I have come across so far. Grinding craft left me dumping 10 mill a month in GH. After completing crafts, moved onto tribe fame and that was surprsingly and unexpectedly well compensated. I took 15 propecting missions today for tribe fame and made about 3 - 4 million with 2-3 deliveries thrown in. I been 50-50-50-50 fame since a month after merge.
But the concept of obtaining fame, rewards or dappers ... when needed.... should be proportional to the effort involved. And if one path is alarmingly more poductive than others, then the others for the most part become irrelevant. It's my position that the goal of game design is to provide balance... NH destroyed that, it was recognized and efforts are being made to correct it.
And that is THE reason why after being removed, NH is now back and, I presume, why it exists side by side, wuth DMs. You can do DMs or if you don't like them stick with NH. If you prefer not doing DMs because you run into a broken mission, no one is stopping your from continuing to do NH. This is a test / tweaking period, missions will be fixed, rewards will be tweaked. keep doing NH until the broken mission count is more to your liking. Or keep the staus quo and only attempt 2 missions a day.
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