Heulwen
As for Kami's being all knowing, that's preposterous. Sure, they have better surveillance technology than mere homins, but as experts in their own technology they must also know how to circumvent it. If we are to assume that they are remotely intelligent beings, it would not be remotely out of line to assume that a few of them have divergent interests.
You made me a sound bite. I did not say Kami are all knowing, I said they are all knowing on Atys. A whole universe worth of difference. And no, Kamis do not use technology, they are technology.
"They share a collective consciousness and it would seem that no living species may escape their perception, and consequently, their wrath if their laws of conservation are transgressed." ~ From the official Lore
I am guessing they are conglomerations of the "Dragon Ash" which permeates and contaminates all matter on Atys, as such they are personifications of Atys. Anything that happens to any of that matter which Atys (and homin) are composed of, they know. Don't beleive me? Try to find a hidden corner of Atys and keep digging...see what happens.
Not to mention, how does one have a differing opinion or divergent interest when you are part of a single consiousness. Kind of a contradiction.
Heulwen
The same goes for kara.
Claims might be made about Karavan incorruptability, but they would be claims unsupported by lore...just speculation.
Heulwen
This has nothing to do with an interest in fighting vs. pvp or what have you. This has frankly to do with the fact that I have serious problems with the lore of both factions.
No offense meant, but from your comments you have not much researched the lore fo the factions. Just because we discuss Kamis eating souls and Jena eating babies in Universe does not mean either faction really does these things.
Heulwen
Although I don't do serious roleplay, I cannot help but think of my character as an individual on atys. She can get along with factions, sure. And she's happily ensconced in a neutral-friendly, loosely kami-aligned guild. She also has kara friends in strongly kara aligned guilds. She can understand reasons for joining either side but sees the cons as overwhelming.
Then you are not really seeing yourselves living on Atys. Homin are primative peoples who believe Karavan and Kami are divinity. There is no, choosing a side, there is worshipping those who give you life and created Atys or there is apostasy. Any or all of these choice (for instance the Zorai brand of Kami worship generally acknowledges Jena's divinity too, and I think Marauders will end up anti-both) are acceptable...but Kami or Karavan are not your buddies who you casually decide to "team with" if you see yourself as living on Atys.
Heulwen
But if she were to actually go join a faction herself, I don't think I'd like her anymore.
And there is nothing wrong with that. Theists acknowledge the probable divinity of both Kamis and Karavan, Apostates (which are not in game but should be) deny both. But, why should they give someone who does not fight for them special privledges?
Heulwen
If I didn't like her I don't think I'd enjoy playing the game anymore. But when I get to the point where I'm too high level to advance with my team mates because of all the extra trekking and DPs, I won't enjoy playing the game so much either.
This is unfortunate, you seem to be a thinker (even if we disagree on this single issue) and the community here thrives as much as it does because it in comprised of people like you...and that entices others. But, I also do not think making the game easier for those who refuse or not want to deal with the repercussions of their choices is a solution.
Heulwen
If server population is indeed a problem, as other threads seem to indicate, this ought to be taken into account. If I, who haven't been playing long at all, have already seen people leave the game because they take this as an incentive to quit rather than, as Loryen suggests, simply an incentive to join a faction, it obviously isn't working as intended.
I have played this game for a long time and I have never seen anyone leave because they were forced to choose a faction. I have seen people leave because the conflicts between the factions (and intra-faction) got stressful. But, I have never seen anyone leave because they were forced to choose a faction. I have seen many people leave who did not like (or who could not figure out) the stanza system, does this suggest we should remove it?
In fact, were they to make this change...and a majority of people go neutral because it is the easy route and/or so they can get together and sing kumbayah with their previous enemies, this would "cheapen" the game for me and I would be looking to leave. For me the factional conflict and politics is the end-game.
Heulwen
Marelli says that 95% of the players would go neutral if they weren't severely penalized. Assuming his figure is correct, that would indicate that there are serious problems with the factions. If factions add nothing to gameplay such that 95% of people would rather not have them, why use game mechanics to attempt to force people to be in them? If they do, in fact, add something important to gameplay, then it is a problem of lore: 95% of people find both factions to fall somewhere on the scale of irrelevant to repugnant and they are only in it for the TP pact, that qualifies as a game design Fail. If that is the case, the lore should evolve to the point where the other 95% want to be in a faction because they find it's lore compelling.
No, correlation does not imply causation. Players and even guilds create cross faction alliances and friendships which makes them dislike being forced into faction. Although they are able to go grind their fame to the opposite faction to join their friends (and some have) it becomes a question of who has to sacrifice their current identity to do this. So, often it does not get done. Just like two guilds who might have an interest in merging, even if the merger would be mutually beneficial to all involved, they do not merge because each wants to maintain that identity.
Returning to the factions, the problem stems from people not paying attention to the lore. The lore says we are all religious devotees who believe either the Kami or the Karavan created Atys and all life on it, including us...and continue to revive us when we die. We believe they are gods. Think about the RL factions on earth...and that is fighting over gods we have no evidence for other than word of mouth. Imagine if those gods were clearly observable and would sometimes fight along-side of us, as is the case on Atys.
These cross faction friendships and alliances are the source of most of the internal stife I have seen in this game. I am definitely not saying people should not play with their friends or create these alliances (since the politics is my end-game, this just makes for more interesting circumstances). However, most of the people who I have known to leave game do so because they finally just get burned out, found something more interesting for awhile, or got mad because of the mixed allegences of others. It is hard to put your efforts into a faction when many members of that faction (whom you are relying upon for support) are closer to members of the opposing faction. And, it is painful and frustrating when your efforts are directly thwarted by the efforts (or lack thereof) of "allies" who are more closely allied with those you are fighting against.
That is the only problem with the factions I see (although I do not know of a good solution).
Heulwen
If the game designers want to encourage people to be in factions without evolving the lore in a direction that would make people want to be in factions for RP reasons,
This lore exists, even if some/many decide not to see it or abide by it.
Heulwen
I think corrupt officials who make penalize neutrals moderately instead of making it overwhelmingly difficult to group with others is an entirely appropriate solution.
As I previously argued and further illustrated above, this corruption is not an option for Kamis who are of a single mind. This means you would have to buy off Karavan only anyways. Why not just go Karavan and RP being a neutral guild which pays off Karavan? Of course, followers of Karavan might dispute the viability of this option.
Anyways, I hope I showed an alternate perspective to some of the points you brought up. I know you still might not agree with me, and no worries. On the other hand, if you still believe as you did, keep arguing your case, maybe you will convert me.
And, I would be very interested in hearing your serious problems with either or both factions.