This was initially a reply to this topic:
http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/26964/1
One of the tasks of a competent products manager is to use conflict as a source of innovation to address consumer needs and problems.
Case in point:
Sinvader and Jahuu
Both are in fact correct in that, they have the right to their personal opinions and positions on the matter of "how to RP correctly"
Sin is as stated by someone else, more of a "fanatic" type RP'er (which is totally fine, you are deep in your roots here in your role, you don't want people fraternizing with the "enemy")
Jahuu on the other hand is a lot more free about who he associates with and, in the real world these are both legitimate types of people.
Consider how Sinvader feels. A "real" marauder or kami or kara who plays hardcore to their beliefs, shuns someone who regularly teams with, (etc) the "enemy" and, still gains all the benefits of the faction (in gameplay terms)
Now in personal terms, perhaps some Kara guilds could say "Loved isn't a real kara, don't give him mats" and you know what, I would be TOTALLY fine with this. This is legitimate RP. As long as no one aggro drags on me, and breaks rules, insulting me personally pretending to be RP'ing
(Which, I have checked with Jahuu and Sin's people have not broken any rules, which I advised, they have the right to their opinion and way of conduct)
So lets look at the two positions:
Sin says, well, lets force the issue, lets put gameplay restrictions imposed on everyone, that will limit this kind of "not real RP"
Jahuu says no, lets leave it open.
Both of them are in fact, giving positions that are not optimal.
I will elaborate: If player X can play super casually and benefit from all the gameplay mechanics of a 100 fame Kara but still trades mats with anyone and is totally known to do it , do they REALLY deserve all the benefits? Objectively, I'd say no.
However, taking away benefits, or, forcing restrictions is also not a good idea. So, what do we do?
Proposed idea for consideration to bridge the gap between RP/PVP hardcore and light players:
1) don't remove anything
2) instead ADD something for hardcore players
(example, you can manually choose, of your own free will, to tag yourself as a hardcore factionist (making up words here) and it means, there are gameplay mechanics that get turned on, that prevent you from teaming with someone else outside faction, prevent you from trading with them, etc
You can really go far with this idea if the engine can do it later on. For example, for X hours in team with opposing faction, the kami agents or karavan agents or marauder agents, will "know" (scout) you and your fame will drop
Your "advanced fame" perks can be removed (something that is not in the game yet for example)
So perhaps, I have 100 kara fame, I choose to turn on hardcore mode, I still choose to team with someone who I want to help, after 2 hours my fame starts to decrease. But I'm totally okay with this because for personal reasons, I wanted to help this person.
You can go even further, and hide names and faction info completely, so let's say, you and I are 100 fame kami/kara
I can't see your name at all or any info about you, not even your guild. I happen to be killing something and you happen by to heal me. We don't know each other, names, guild, faction, but we speak a little, and we team.
Is there really a penalty that should automatically apply to these two people? Perhaps when we spend some time together, the game reveals to us automatically "signs that they are kara, or kami" and I can somehow determine (without you telling me) that you are that faction (or you can overtly choose to tell me, with some in game mechanic)
So lets look at an outpost battle.
Lets say I'm Kami but I really want to help a Kara in an outpost battle for personal reasons, perhaps this person trekked me 2 years ago, or saved my life, or offered me advice.
I show up at the outpost with a helmet on, you cannot see my face, you do not know who I am, you can't really report me to the Kami's for betrayal. But, suppose someone else knows me, (I have either manually chosen to use gameplay mechanics to reveal myself, or they have been around me long enough to know, or some other person told them, etc)
They can now right click on me and tag me as a someone who is doing something wrong in the eyes of the Kami, my fame takes a hit, it affects something else of mine.
I'm totally fine with this, or maybe I'm not. Maybe I help for 10 minutes and leave, this is the "most I can do, for my old friend"
What I'm proposing is a way to really use the fame system to some nice effect, with benefit, risk, reward, for all, not some.
Let's say you have known me a very long time, we know everything about each other, you have information on me, you could pass this on to your entire faction. Loved is a Kara follower, if your level of "knowledge of me" is, say, 90-100%, then you can inform anyone you "know" 50% or more, of this (even if they have not seen me before, they trust your word)
This makes spy play very interesting.
Now take it even further, let's say you and I have a secret chat channel with a password ,we use this to communicate. Perhaps, someone can "discover" us, perhaps messages can leak, perhaps it will affect our fame, or knowledge in some way.
I think this is an excellent way to think about things, give more, not take away. Respect the person who stalwartly roleplays a Marauder, reward them something. Penalise (to limits) someone who violates this but make it somewhat optional.
(Or, added rewards are only in hardcore mode, you can't lock or unlock them by playing laid back)
It would give a Kami and Kara love story some fun to it, they fight on opposite times at times, they meet in secret, people find out, people choose to cover it up too. Maybe I can take a personal hit to my Kara fame by ignoring the fact that someone I know is teaming with someone who is not Kara, and is in my team.
Sorry to run on so long but I'm writing as the ideas come, this is largely unscripted and unstructured. It would give some more use to helmets too, hide your face. Height, that person CANT POSSIBLY be a tryker. If they're a tryker they are less likely to be a Kami. Do I report them on suspicion alone? If I report them and I'm wrong, my faction will repute me less.
I hope you can consider my ideas and discuss.
I decide to make a new post, not to sidetrack the old one.
I'm going to flesh this out with more structure later.
http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/26964/1
One of the tasks of a competent products manager is to use conflict as a source of innovation to address consumer needs and problems.
Case in point:
Sinvader and Jahuu
Both are in fact correct in that, they have the right to their personal opinions and positions on the matter of "how to RP correctly"
Sin is as stated by someone else, more of a "fanatic" type RP'er (which is totally fine, you are deep in your roots here in your role, you don't want people fraternizing with the "enemy")
Jahuu on the other hand is a lot more free about who he associates with and, in the real world these are both legitimate types of people.
Consider how Sinvader feels. A "real" marauder or kami or kara who plays hardcore to their beliefs, shuns someone who regularly teams with, (etc) the "enemy" and, still gains all the benefits of the faction (in gameplay terms)
Now in personal terms, perhaps some Kara guilds could say "Loved isn't a real kara, don't give him mats" and you know what, I would be TOTALLY fine with this. This is legitimate RP. As long as no one aggro drags on me, and breaks rules, insulting me personally pretending to be RP'ing
(Which, I have checked with Jahuu and Sin's people have not broken any rules, which I advised, they have the right to their opinion and way of conduct)
So lets look at the two positions:
Sin says, well, lets force the issue, lets put gameplay restrictions imposed on everyone, that will limit this kind of "not real RP"
Jahuu says no, lets leave it open.
Both of them are in fact, giving positions that are not optimal.
I will elaborate: If player X can play super casually and benefit from all the gameplay mechanics of a 100 fame Kara but still trades mats with anyone and is totally known to do it , do they REALLY deserve all the benefits? Objectively, I'd say no.
However, taking away benefits, or, forcing restrictions is also not a good idea. So, what do we do?
Proposed idea for consideration to bridge the gap between RP/PVP hardcore and light players:
1) don't remove anything
2) instead ADD something for hardcore players
(example, you can manually choose, of your own free will, to tag yourself as a hardcore factionist (making up words here) and it means, there are gameplay mechanics that get turned on, that prevent you from teaming with someone else outside faction, prevent you from trading with them, etc
You can really go far with this idea if the engine can do it later on. For example, for X hours in team with opposing faction, the kami agents or karavan agents or marauder agents, will "know" (scout) you and your fame will drop
Your "advanced fame" perks can be removed (something that is not in the game yet for example)
So perhaps, I have 100 kara fame, I choose to turn on hardcore mode, I still choose to team with someone who I want to help, after 2 hours my fame starts to decrease. But I'm totally okay with this because for personal reasons, I wanted to help this person.
You can go even further, and hide names and faction info completely, so let's say, you and I are 100 fame kami/kara
I can't see your name at all or any info about you, not even your guild. I happen to be killing something and you happen by to heal me. We don't know each other, names, guild, faction, but we speak a little, and we team.
Is there really a penalty that should automatically apply to these two people? Perhaps when we spend some time together, the game reveals to us automatically "signs that they are kara, or kami" and I can somehow determine (without you telling me) that you are that faction (or you can overtly choose to tell me, with some in game mechanic)
So lets look at an outpost battle.
Lets say I'm Kami but I really want to help a Kara in an outpost battle for personal reasons, perhaps this person trekked me 2 years ago, or saved my life, or offered me advice.
I show up at the outpost with a helmet on, you cannot see my face, you do not know who I am, you can't really report me to the Kami's for betrayal. But, suppose someone else knows me, (I have either manually chosen to use gameplay mechanics to reveal myself, or they have been around me long enough to know, or some other person told them, etc)
They can now right click on me and tag me as a someone who is doing something wrong in the eyes of the Kami, my fame takes a hit, it affects something else of mine.
I'm totally fine with this, or maybe I'm not. Maybe I help for 10 minutes and leave, this is the "most I can do, for my old friend"
What I'm proposing is a way to really use the fame system to some nice effect, with benefit, risk, reward, for all, not some.
Let's say you have known me a very long time, we know everything about each other, you have information on me, you could pass this on to your entire faction. Loved is a Kara follower, if your level of "knowledge of me" is, say, 90-100%, then you can inform anyone you "know" 50% or more, of this (even if they have not seen me before, they trust your word)
This makes spy play very interesting.
Now take it even further, let's say you and I have a secret chat channel with a password ,we use this to communicate. Perhaps, someone can "discover" us, perhaps messages can leak, perhaps it will affect our fame, or knowledge in some way.
I think this is an excellent way to think about things, give more, not take away. Respect the person who stalwartly roleplays a Marauder, reward them something. Penalise (to limits) someone who violates this but make it somewhat optional.
(Or, added rewards are only in hardcore mode, you can't lock or unlock them by playing laid back)
It would give a Kami and Kara love story some fun to it, they fight on opposite times at times, they meet in secret, people find out, people choose to cover it up too. Maybe I can take a personal hit to my Kara fame by ignoring the fact that someone I know is teaming with someone who is not Kara, and is in my team.
Sorry to run on so long but I'm writing as the ideas come, this is largely unscripted and unstructured. It would give some more use to helmets too, hide your face. Height, that person CANT POSSIBLY be a tryker. If they're a tryker they are less likely to be a Kami. Do I report them on suspicion alone? If I report them and I'm wrong, my faction will repute me less.
I hope you can consider my ideas and discuss.
I decide to make a new post, not to sidetrack the old one.
I'm going to flesh this out with more structure later.
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