@Daomei: I agree there's certain players that go off the beaten track to make grinding a more challenging activity for them. Amazons Mysticia for exampe does that a lot. All I'm saying is that most people don't do that, but still think Ryzom is a more difficult game because it has a long and arduous grind.
I just think that's a very artificial difficulty. It doesn't challenge you as a player, it just forces you to spin that hamster's wheel longer and harder.
And I also agree many games, like the ones you mentioned, have been totally dumbing down the experience to make it completely accessible to casuals. Someone once told me nowadays you can reach level cap in WoW in one day. But what kills the challenge in those dumbed down games isn't the ease of leveling, but the ease of the "end game" content as well. Raids in WoW are also very easy, dumbed down and casual from what people keep telling me as they quit the game.
I would be totally fine with a game in which you could reach level cap fast but then have difficult, challenging and deep end game activities that require tactics and coordination. In EVE skill training is passive, you don't need to grind for skills. It happens automatically, you just choose which ones to train first. All you need to grind for is isk, but there are just so many different ways to acquire isk, and some of them aren't even grindy at all. Just requires you to be clever about it. And no one in their right mind would say EVE is an easy or casual game. It's as hard as they come.
I just think that's a very artificial difficulty. It doesn't challenge you as a player, it just forces you to spin that hamster's wheel longer and harder.
And I also agree many games, like the ones you mentioned, have been totally dumbing down the experience to make it completely accessible to casuals. Someone once told me nowadays you can reach level cap in WoW in one day. But what kills the challenge in those dumbed down games isn't the ease of leveling, but the ease of the "end game" content as well. Raids in WoW are also very easy, dumbed down and casual from what people keep telling me as they quit the game.
I would be totally fine with a game in which you could reach level cap fast but then have difficult, challenging and deep end game activities that require tactics and coordination. In EVE skill training is passive, you don't need to grind for skills. It happens automatically, you just choose which ones to train first. All you need to grind for is isk, but there are just so many different ways to acquire isk, and some of them aren't even grindy at all. Just requires you to be clever about it. And no one in their right mind would say EVE is an easy or casual game. It's as hard as they come.
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"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."