Nehrie
The more I read the better understanding I obtain.
I see as part of the problem here that this was a non-pvp game for what 7 years before pvp was added in.
But the non-pvpers use different weapons. They don't stand and face someone. They have a different style.
So it's not really PvP vs PvE it's Pvp vs Diggers. ( no offense intended )
So I disagree with Haniel's list on that ground. PvPers are more liable to loot mats than dig mats. Though I know PvPers who are good at recipes and digging.
What I feel like is wrong is if PvP is not wanted and considered not needed here then why offer it on the website. Why take our money and then try to drive us out of the game? Just take it off the website. Make it not part of the game. Then all the little diggers can be happy again.
Otherwise we need to learn to get along. It's not fair to offer PvP on the website, take our money and then make it virtually an unplayable option.
Your assumptions are based upon a false premise. PvP and areas have existed since the 1st day.... PvP oriented guilds were established in the 1st month
http://forums.ryzom.com/search.php?searchid=963744
And it didn't take 7 years for even OP PvP to be part of game ... Outost PvP came in about 1.5 years post release (September 04 => March 06 = 18 months). Here's an example of the results
http://forums.ryzom.com/showthread.php?t=22504
There was a reason why so many non pvp players were attracted to Ryzom. It was different than the multitude of existing PvP oriented MMOs, so it did draw a large PvE base and, at least on NA server, we lost over 50% of our player base when PvP expanded beyond defined areas and "claiming regions" (Jessica Mulligan's idea) was slated for introduction.
Later on, with population dwindling, there was a resurgence when the NA community decided to ignore game mechanics and the community chose not to engage in any form of non-consensual PvP. All was well with the world, OP battles took place .. those that didn't go didn't go and afterwards no one was walking around with packing grudges.
Yes PvErs do have a different style... it involves not forcing ones views or play style on anyone else or not trying to take anything from anyone else.
No one is trying to take anything away from PvP players other the "assumed right" to force it on anyone else. I see no evidence of anyone trying to force PvP out of the game, (examples please) only to be able to escape it.
Don't understand why you look down on diggers, I don't enjoy digging ... I was 220 in melee and 20 in harvest (from the Fyros newb island) before I did my 1st dig on mainland. Simple fact of life was, if I wanted good gear, digging would be a fact of life. I don't like having to go to work everyday but I like eating and having a roof over my head. If you don't want to dig, then your choice is the same as IRL, pay someone else to do it for you. Not an unreasonable alternative ... as opposed to hiring a 'hit man' to take someone out.
I find the take our money comment quite ironic. On top of the lack of even a single example of Ryzom trying to take something away from PvP, it simply can not be argued that PvErs have access to the same amount of rewards as pvp does... and yet they pay the same subscription rate.
Where we agree is that we do need to get along ... and when you force someone to do something they don't want to do, that is not conducive to that happening. Neither is the dwindling population conducive to the long term viability of the game. If you want the game to continue to exist, disenchanting 505 of the population is not that way to do it.
When PvP was introduced to Ryzom and we lost so many people, I looked at WoW which my sons were playing and noticed one thing that very much surprised me. I counted the number of PvP versus PvE servers and frankly was shocked to see that the number of PvE servers was slightly higher. If we want the game to survive, steering the game to one side or the other is not a wise course of action.
And while PvErs are content to exist outside of PvP activities, it's not unreasonable to ask that they be afforded equivalent opportunities for IG rewards. Most PvPers have no objection to this. Over the last 12 years, the friendships I have established and people I spend time with are primarily PvP oriented, many of them among the best in game.
There is a segment however that thrives on a) having stuff that others don't have, b) working very hard to make it difficult for them to get it and c) objecting to any change that allows them to have the same opportunities they do.
I have no objection to any increase or change in PvP opportunities or anything that will bring more PvP payers in game unless that change a) continues to drive other players from game, b) discourages more PvE players from joining the game or c) furher divides the community into separate classes of "haves' and "have nots". These goals need not be mutually exclusive.
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