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#16 [en] 

Do not mistake your own limitations for mine.

For sure, it's difficult, for me with 1 account - I can't immagine how I could use 3 or even 6 LOL

 

(signed: an old cow, suffering with her arm LOL)

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Jenn (2 months ago)

#17 [fr] 

Alors, la solution appliquée par le support n’est pas parfaite et limite juste le problème, toutefois c’est déjà pas mal !

Par contre, il faut arrêter l’hypocrisie au bout d’un moment. Déjà, Ryzom est en effet un jeu coopératif, mais dans l’éventualité où vous êtes seul et que vos amis sont déconnectés… un seul alt, même pas abonné, suffit largement ! Ce n’est pas besoin de jouer quatre personnages en même temps !

Après, c’est sûr qu’à deux, il est impossible de tuer la plupart des rois 270… ce qui est absolument normal vu que ce sont des chalenges de guilde ! C’est comme se plaindre de ne pas pouvoir capturer un OP seul !

 

« Playing 4 accounts at once is not "a personal army". It is not even half a team. »

 

C’est une remarque sérieuse ? Quatre personnages en même temps, ça reste énorme, même si ça n’égalise pas une équipe complète ! Avec ce raisonnement, on pourrait aussi bien dire « Je joue dix personnages en même temps mais ça va, ce n’est même pas la moitié d’une grosse guilde. »

 

Bref, pour conclure, un grand bravo au support qui fait de son mieux, cette solution n’est pas parfaite mais n’est pas mal du tout !

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#18 [fr] 

Les joueurs qui jouent sur des fuseaux horaires type états-unis, si vous trouvez personne pour faire un roi ou un boss, c'est peut être aussi parce que justement, la plupart sont avec leur alt.

Et quand bien même il y a peu de joueurs dans ces périodes, j'ai envie de dire: tant pis. Le jeu n'est pas réglé pour certains fuseaux horaires? Tant pis, c'est comme ça. Vous voulez quoi, que les anim fassent des nuits blanches pour jouer des event?

Ou alors, activez vous pour régler cela: devenez animateur, recrutez des joueurs, bougez-vous. C'est facile de réclamer et de jouer les victimes. Mais faire, c'est mieux. ** DEL ** Personal Attack
Au lieu de monter vos alt, c'est le moment de montrer ce que vous êtes capable de faire en terme d'animation, de dév ou simplement pour motiver d'autres joueurs potentiels sur vos fuseaux horaires. Il y a des joueurs avec du potentiel chez les américains. Certains ont même fait des choses (je pense aux fluffy bunny). Faut continuer.

Engagez-vous qu'il disait! :p

Last edited by Heli (2 months ago)

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fyros pure sève
akash i orak, talen i rechten!
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#19 [en] 

I agree with Mathimat. This policy is a half-measure at best, it solves absolutely no purpose. What are you, developers, trying to accomplish with this?

stopping multiple toons making an unbeatable army? you don't know that controlling 2 toons alone is enough to solo-take on Bosses and Outposts.

Does it solve the multiboxing issue (3rd party software)? no, because you don't have the software to tell you if the toons are timed by a machine or not. (no, Syron, you aren't corrent saying that "it's obvious" when one uses 3rd party soft). As Mathimat pointed out, multitoon players Must submit a live video of their "performance". It is truely remarkable what one can do with multiple accounts without the use of 3rd party software if given enough practice. You are taking this art-form away from this game.

ok, are you trying to solve the problem of "fairness" to other players with less money and weaker computers? i get that, make the game enjoyable for all. By that logic all alts must be banned (see my 2nd paragraph).

I hope you realise what you are doing as you shape this game, Devs.

Good day,
Z

Last edited by Zauza (2 months ago)

#20 [en] 

***DEL*** Out of Topic

Last edited by Heli (2 months ago)

#21 [en] 

Azazor
Les joueurs qui jouent sur des fuseaux horaires type états-unis, si vous trouvez personne pour faire un roi ou un boss, c'est peut être aussi parce que justement, la plupart sont avec leur alt.

Et quand bien même il y a peu de joueurs dans ces périodes, j'ai envie de dire: tant pis. Le jeu n'est pas réglé pour certains fuseaux horaires? Tant pis, c'est comme ça. Vous voulez quoi, que les anim fassent des nuits blanches pour jouer des event?

Ou alors, activez vous pour régler cela: devenez animateur, recrutez des joueurs, bougez-vous. C'est facile de réclamer et de jouer les victimes. Mais faire, c'est mieux. Et non beeficus, y'a rien de personnel, je doute que l'équipe ryzom crée des règles spécialement pour toi, redescend sur terre.
Au lieu de monter vos alt, c'est le moment de montrer ce que vous êtes capable de faire en terme d'animation, de dév ou simplement pour motiver d'autres joueurs potentiels sur vos fuseaux horaires. Il y a des joueurs avec du potentiel chez les américains. Certains ont même fait des choses (je pense aux fluffy bunny). Faut continuer.

Engagez-vous qu'il disait! :p

I did not say anything about killing a boss alone. I said that in the afternoons in my time zone, it is impossible to fill a team because there are just not enough players online. Even with 2 toons I can still kill bosses alone.

But since you want to talk about the way the game was intended to be played why dont we ban Chanchey NPC hunts? They were intended as guild challenges, not to be killed by a random mob.

This is the hypocrisy. None of you have any leg to stand on talking about how the game should be played. The game was designed to be multiboxed and that fact is irrefutable.

You are not forcing me to play the game "correctly". You are forcing me to play it your way or forcing me out of it.

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#22 [en] 

**DEL** Out of Topic

Last edited by Heli (2 months ago)

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#23 [fr] 

Beeficus

But since you want to talk about the way the game was intended to be played why dont we ban Chanchey NPC hunts? They were intended as guild challenges, not to be killed by a random mob.

Evidemment qu'il faut interdire cette chasse. C'est l'un des pires contenus apparus sur Ryzom depuis le merge. Cela casse complètement l'intérêt du jeu en guilde ou en faction. C'est la seule chose vraie que tu dis depuis le début du post.

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#24 [fr] 

I have never made a ticket for anything if that's what you are talking about. So no-one have the recording. I am just stating the fact your way of handling your alts have recently changed. That is a fact I have witnessed.

And anyway, as someone who never used (small lie here I have used 1 alt for healing in the past) an alt I am very happy with this decision as it's reducing the discrepancies between those who use alts with those who doesn't (even for digging and craft grind it's not fair ... because with 4 alts you dig way faster than an homin alone).

#25 Multilingual 

Multilingual | Français | [English]
I think it’s important before I start to mention that I don’t do multiboxing, except for healing my nodes sometimes.

I completely understand the annoyance of some players on the fact that multiboxing can create an imbalance, especially on op wars or on bosses.

Despite this, I’m not quite sure implementing so fast such an unexpected decision is the right solution. One of your main arguments was the fact that now that there are more people online, you receive more complaints, and alts are no longer necessary for the game since there are enough players. But think about the fact that these people came back because of an exceptional context and most of them (let’s be honest with ourselves) will be gone within two or three months. Maybe waiting at least for things to all come back to normal would be a good idea?

Now let’s talk about losses. I sincerely think that they will be a lot more important if this decision is implemented than if things are changed, but not like that. I don’t know if you still care at this point, but since they are multiboxing, that’s 4 subscriptions per month that ryzom will lose, for each one of them. On the other hand, if you let them play with their alts but keep them from ruining other people’s game experience (banning alts from op/bosses), I don't think anyone hates them enough to still want to leave if they don’t annoy anyone anymore.

One of the other arguments that Ulukyn gave, is that using a team full of alts could ruin the interest of the storyline. But you can be sure that most of your ”famous multiboxers” don’t care at all about doing the storyline with their alts, and if they are interested in it, I think they will all be willing to team with other players.
I personally know one of these multiboxers, and I know that most of the time when he logs on, it’s just for the sake of training 4 toons at the same time, because he’s bored with just one or two. Taking that from them, knowing that honestly when they just train like that they don’t bother anyone, is just taking their whole interest in the game, since that’s what they enjoy on Ryzom. Making players who’ve been playing for more than 10 years and who play all year long because these days there are more complaints from people who play one month per year once every four years is quite unfair.
I am aware that you’ve said that they will keep their alts, but just won’t be able to play them all at the same time, but let’s be honest, that will just make them leave completely. That will just make them lose 10 years of time and money investment.

Another argument would be roleplay. Most of the players who complain about multiboxing practice roleplay, but you can’t force everyone to do the same. Personally I enjoy a bit of roleplay sometimes, but when I do some, I can easily understand that some people don’t like it (it takes some time, and it’s an activity that anyone could not like). So if someone decides to train alone with his 3 alts, I don’t see how it can bother anyone.

Finally, you keep saying that multiboxing keeps people from socializing with others to collaborate for tasks or quests. Added to the fact that I completely disagree because wanting to be independant to train doesn’t keep anyone from talking with others or enjoying a nice hunt with friends, if they prefer playing on their own with their alts, I don’t see the problem, as long as they don’t ruin anyone’s game experience (on bosses or op wars for example).


Despite all this, I completely agree with the ones saying that it has created an imbalance on outposts especially. I really understand how people can be annoyed when they see a team full of alts soloing a boss, or winning a war thanks to them. In that case, could we not just leave the limit to four, but make the rules more strict by banning alts from outposts or bosses for example, and wait at least a few weeks after everyone is back to work before taking such an important decision without exchanging more with the players?

Banning alts from outposts for example don’t seem too complicated, since if they are fighting on the outpost, just one screenshot/video and *poof*, banned (seems a lot easier to prove than the use of a third party software).

Sorry for the loooong post, but too many arguments seemed a bit too easy.

#26 [fr] 

« This is the hypocrisy. None of you have any leg to stand on talking about how the game should be played. The game was designed to be multiboxed and that fact is irrefutable. »

 « All you have is a video showing your limited perspective. Feel free to post your video wherever you like but your continued harassment means the only one violating the Code of Conduct here is you. »

 Donc c’est irréfutable que le jeu ait été conçu pour se jouer avec le multiboxing, mais une preuve vidéo est réfutable ?

Je ne commenterais même pas le bon vieux classique : « You are not forcing me to play the game "correctly". You are forcing me to play it your way or forcing me out of it. »

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#27 Multilingual 

Hi,
I think the problem isnt coming from multiboxing, I agree that a player "soloing" a Boss shouldnt be happening. But having more than 2 charaters logged at the same time is way more than PvPing or huting Boss, most people use them for crafting (having different GHs for different mats for exemple) and it shouldnt be forbidden.
**DEL** Disrespectfull
Therefore i just join Mathi & General's opinions that we shouldnt take that kind of decision this fast.

**DEL** Disrespectfull

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Heli (2 months ago)

#28 [fr] 

zauza
You are taking this art-form away from this game.
Donc maintenant, jouer à plusieurs alt en même temps, c'est de l'art? :facepalm:
zauza
ok, are you trying to solve the problem of "fairness" to other players with less money and weaker computers? i get that, make the game enjoyable for all. By that logic all alts (even 2) must be banned (see my 2nd paragraph).
Pour les petites config, 1 alt en plus du perso principal, ça tient. Au delà, ça pose problème.
beeficus
I did not say anything about killing a boss alone. I said that in the afternoons in my time zone, it is impossible to fill a team because there are just not enough players online. Even with 2 toons I can still kill bosses alone.
Alors de quoi vous plaignez-vous? Vous avez déjà de quoi faire la quasi totalité des choses sur ryzom avec de vrais joueurs à vos horaires. Vous voulez quoi de plus? Pouvoir faire les boss maraud?
beeficus
But since you want to talk about the way the game was intended to be played why dont we ban Chanchey NPC hunts? They were intended as guild challenges, not to be killed by a random mob.
Le Chancey boss hunt, ça peut se tenir en terme de RP. Après tout, les marauds sont des ennemis de bien des nations/factions. Et c'est des joueurs avec d'autres joueurs. Donc même si personnellement je trouve ça pas terrible ce mélange de tout et n'importe qui (surtout azazor, ça lui file; des boutons), ça passe quand même. C'est un peu dommage, mais ça passe.
(Et techniquement de toute façon, on ne peut pas les interdire.)

Last edited by Azazor (2 months ago)

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#29 [en] 

Soleya
Dans ce cas, ne peut-on pas commencer par laisser la limite à quatre personnages, mais rendre le règlement plus strict en interdisant les alts sur op et sur roi par exemple, et attendre au moins quelques semaines après la reprise du travail pour tout le monde avant de prendre une décision aussi importante sans en avoir parlé de façon plus approfondie avec les joueurs?

Leur interdire la présence d’alts sur les ops par exemple ne me semble pas si compliqué, puisque s'ils sont présents, un simple screen/vidéo envoyé à un GM et hop, un ban (c’est bien plus facile à prouver que l’utilisation de bots il me semble).
Il faut avoir répertorié tous les alt des joueurs. Et rien ne les empêchera d'en faire des tout neufs. Je ne pense pas que ce soit aussi simple.
Vous parlez de pertes aussi. ça représente quoi les joueurs avec 3-4 alt en même temps et qui ne vont pas accepter la décision au point de partir? Une poignée de joueur. Donc même dans l'intérêt purement financier, je ne suis pas sûr que Ryzom y perde au change.

Pareil pour l'idée d'etchelion d'un programme anticheat. Vous êtes au courant qu'on est sur ryzom? C'est pas la foire au dév hein? XD

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fyros pure sève
akash i orak, talen i rechten!
élucubrations
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#30 [en] 

What I am complaining about is that how I play is being dictated by people who have nothing to do with me, who are completely unaffected by it and who have no reason to complain other than FOMO.

What I am complaining about is that this is the second time a rule has been changed to restrict the way I and others play based solely on complaints by the devs favourite players.

What I am complaining about is that so many of you continue to talk about "software" and continue to accuse me of cheating even tho it has never been established that anyone in the game is currently using software, yet I am still being treated as if I am guilty by default.

What I am complaining about is that this is a blatantly political move that is designed to drive me and my friends out of the game, and nothing more.

If this weekend has showed anything, it has showed that good players utilising good teamwork can beat an opponent with greater numbers (alts or not). The OP battle complaint is foolish, as that complaint was NEVER addressed before the merge when the Kamis had the alt advantage. It wasnt addressed until it affected the french players. I have never fought with any group of people over a boss kill. I have always played politely, shared and helped others. This "massive advantage" that I am being accused of having through "external software" is nothing more than a jealous perception from people who are afraid they are missing out on something, completely ignoring the other inherent imbalances that are impossible to change, for example physical distance from the server, active populations during time zones, and many others.

You want to ask me what MY complaint is? This is not happening because of MY complaint. This is happening because of yours.

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