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IDEAS FOR RYZOM


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#1 [en] 

It's no secret to anyone that the numbers of players in different factions are less than evenly distributed. The Kami seem to have the largest numbers, while there are so few Karavans that they simply can't compete, not on their own. While cross-faction alliances are great, the disparity in numbers is still bothersome. Looking at other games that present warring factions, there tends to be a roughly 50/50 split, so this issue seems to be something unique to Ryzom. The question is, what causes it, and what can be done about it?

First and foremost, I think one cause of this problem is that there are simply too many factions for the small number of active players. While I love their lore, having 4 factions is just not sustainable anymore.

The other reason may be subjective and I might be wrong here, but the Karavan faction just isn't very appealing. Their futuristic tech looks more like someting out of Star Wars or Star Trek and looks very out of place in an otherwise fantasy game. (Yes, I have read the Bible of Ryzom, but, far as I know, that's not officially published lore) I know when I was new, I felt to reason to join these weird space-faring aliens. Meanwhile the Kami faction looks amazing. They want to protect the planet - who wouldn't want to get behind that cause?

Maybe there's more to this, who knows. If someone can elighten me on the issue, it would be greatly appreciated.

Moving on, what can be done about it? I am frankly at a loss for ideas that wouldn't alienate a massive part of the community. I like the suggestion that has floated around the forums before, to merge Kami and Kara, then merge Rangers and Marauders. But I know this change would make many people unhappy.

I would like to discuss different ideas about how to solve this problem here.

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#2 [en] 

Kami has always been more attractive to many simply because "teddy bears" are cute. That right there was always a problem for Karavan even when there were only two official factions, and Marauders and Rangers were merely RP choices. Add in the misconception that Karavan seeks to destroy Atys simply because Kami seek to protect Atys and there is conflict between Kami and Karavan, and you basically have a faction that was designed to fail, even if that was not the intent.

As for too many factions, I would counter that offering only two fairly similar options would make some people feel forced and thus join neither side... as many Mara/Rangers did before they each got their own TP systems. It's a little different if the choices are drastically different, but the differences between the two K's is something that simply does not make for engaging lore; you will simply go with the one that has their TPs in more convenient locations, or the one that you are forced to because your buddies are all in a guild that is aligned to one of the powers. If there is no third option, players will make one. Whether or not they stick around for long depends on how heavily penalized they feel for being non-binary. And given how this latest patch punishes those who are not aligned to a nation, I'm a bit skeptical that such options would ever be really supported; that the mechanics will continue to force people to either get into boxes they don't want to get into or leave entirely.

Marauders and Rangers have a bit in common as neither are big on higher powers or nations, but are opposite in enough other ways that the only way it would be feasible to merge them is if we go to a paradigm that places "Traditionalists" against "Hominists" as we fight over whether Atys should remain trapped in the past, refusing to change, or evolve even if that means shedding traditions. If done as simply militant and non-militant sub-factions of the same faction though, it could work. Given the OOC factions that I have seen in these forums, I feel that that may actually work out. After all, that seems to be the major source of conflict here; "The old ways are best!" versus "The past is behind us!".

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#3 [en] 

There seems to be a general push towards "the old ways are best" from what I can see (just my impression).

I feel like there's pressure to force me into some kind of adversarial relatioship. Join a nation! Join a faction! Do PvP! All of this seems to based on the historical lore.

However, the current situation makes nonsense of those notions. The Kitins have invaded and are a threat to all Homins. The whole notion of picking sides and competing against each other is suicidal at best.

For those reasons I play a neutral. I don't even feel any urge to join Marauders or Rangers; both are organizations with their own goals and agendas and can't be trusted.

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Yaandor | Cult of Dgambi | He who walks alone
Atys is a stern and determined teacher; willing to repeat the same lesson as often as necessary.

#4 [en] 

Yaandor
There seems to be a general push towards "the old ways are best" from what I can see (just my impression).
That is why my sig block reads as it does; those who do not feel that way generally feel that it's not worth putting any effort into suggestions that will be ignored, so you will not hear us speak up. Then again, for most of my friends who came from Arispotle and those who started not long after Merge, "the old ways" were more egalitarian, less "RP or die!", and not all that fond of PvP; the polar opposite of what the more vocal "old ways were best" crowd say.
Yaandor
I feel like there's pressure to force me into some kind of adversarial relatioship. Join a nation! Join a faction! Do PvP! All of this seems to based on the historical lore.
Well, one fanatical extremist interpretation of lore that is regrettably common amongst those that attend these forums, yes. However, if you get away from the small-but-loud self-entitled authoritarian crowd, you will find a much more "Do your own thing" lack of pressure. It really depends on which part of the community you interact with.
Yaandor
However, the current situation makes nonsense of those notions. The Kitins have invaded and are a threat to all Homins. The whole notion of picking sides and competing against each other is suicidal at best.
You'd think so, but apparently some feel otherwise. The lack of notable kitin activity has cause the "I *must* fight something!" crowd to see other homins as the only viable target for their aggression as they refuse to accept that the world is not as it was and that you can't just shank people in the street with impunity like you used to. Those are the folks that want to return to the past because allowing the world to move into the present would lead to a near-future where their behavior considered unacceptable and they cannot handle that. To them, it's better to turn the clock than to evolve.
Yaandor
For those reasons I play a neutral. I don't even feel any urge to join Marauders or Rangers; both are organizations with their own goals and agendas and can't be trusted.
Again, it really depends who you deal with. Some Marauders are really into the Might Makes Right aspect as it gives them a way to grief others CoD-style while avoiding a CoC violation under the "I'm just RP-ing!" umbrella. Do not trek through PR as that type of Marauder often logs in for no purpose other than to troll Uni and camp PR just to grief people. But there are also Marauders who simply want the challenge of being forced to avoid cities and/or the advantage of more/better TP locations in PR who are actually quite nice and helpful (and also hunted by the type of Mara mentioned above). Likewise, Rangers are mostly "Neutral with 250/PR TP" folks with only one militant "Play my way or you are a lazy lore-hater!!!1111" type that I've seen. There is enough diversity within each that I would hesitate at guessing their agenda.

Edited 5 times | Last edited by Gidget (2 weeks ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#5 [en] 

After a bit more thought, I do not think anything can be done, and even if something could be done, it won't be. The real faction issue is that part of the player population wants the exact opposite of what the other part wants, and the dev team is not impartial here.

We want guild membership restrictions to be decided by the guild leadership, at least in Neutral guilds, and we are told "No!" for hypocritical reasons.

We ask to retain some semblance of a sandbox and we are buried in concrete.

We ask for the ability to roleplay our own characters and roles are forced upon us.

We make suggestions, but are told, "That's not how we like to play so you are not allowed to play that way! In fact, we'll change the rules so you can never play that way!".

Fine. Ryzom does not want those outside their little monoculture to play? They can do without us and our money. Many of us have already gone, quite a few more will go, and it's all because of a factional divide that has been deliberately widened instead of diplomatically bridged.

Last edited by Gidget (2 weeks ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#6 Multilingual 

+1

It's not the first time that game changes have been made that dictate players options, the end result being the loss of players or subscriptions.

I don't often comment on Forums, but this was worth a response because I think it encapsulates the feelings of quite a few players.

Being Massively Multiplayer means diversity, however the game changes only seem to appease the select few. Requests for change to balance things out, are either ignored or shot down and we're told to put it on the forums (where it ultimately gets parked and ignored).

Ryzom is a player game, with a slogan 'Power to the Players' so how can it be that players voices are un-heard?

When I look at Ryzom today, so many players have already voted with their feet and moved on, isn't there an important message there?

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Everone has an opinion, and of course are entitled to have one, but others are equally entitled to decide whether they choose to agree or disagree. Acting like a complete Muppet isn't likely going to change minds or win support :)

#7 [en] 

Just because the devs did not agree that one or more of your ideas would benefit the entire community does not mean that they did not listen. Imagine the crap show that would happen if every idea had to be enacted...

#8 [en] 

Placio
Just because the devs did not agree that one or more of your ideas would benefit the entire community does not mean that they did not listen. Imagine the crap show that would happen if every idea had to be enacted...

It's more about the selectivity of listening. It's the overall pattern of rejection/implementation and the direction that path leads. And it's not a recent thing, nor is it any one incident; it's been a years-long buildup. I no longer think "the greater good" is a concern, only the good of the demographic that has not been run out of these forums (and often Ryzom entirely) by derision, abuse, and/or sheer resignation.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Gidget (2 weeks ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#9 Multilingual 

Placio
Just because the devs did not agree that one or more of your ideas would benefit the entire community does not mean that they did not listen. Imagine the crap show that would happen if every idea had to be enacted...

I think that's probably the point, the devs seem to think that the ideas of a small minority are in favour of the entire community.

Take RP for instance, RP is an optional element there for each individual player to decide whether they want to RP or not. I personally think it was a huge leap forward to add a little message every time we log in to remind everyone what the 'Around' channel is for.

At least granny now knows how to suck eggs :-)

Last edited by Bubbason (2 weeks ago)

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Everone has an opinion, and of course are entitled to have one, but others are equally entitled to decide whether they choose to agree or disagree. Acting like a complete Muppet isn't likely going to change minds or win support :)
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