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#46 Report | Quote[en] 

Victoriacamper
You should have realised by now. Atys consists mostly of chronic complainers

And the forums consist almost solely of people who complain about people who dare complain. And the former seem to believe they have some sort of moral high ground over the latter, which is beyond ridiculous and very ironic.

I don't see why complaints are such an issue. From what I've seen, in the majority of cases, they come from a place of caring about the game and concern about the changes. We all pay the same subscription and everyone is entitled to having an opinion.

Criticizing something you enjoy in order for it to improve is not a bad thing.

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#47 Report | Quote[en] 

@Revvy - So basically you're saying Ryzom is not a game and therefore imbalance is not only not a problem, but actually desirable. And if you think Aleeskandaro has presented a good way then you are a hypocrite if you earn more than one-third whatever the average fast food worker in your home area earns. It may be okay for those aligned to a nation, but the mechanics incentivize tossing RP in the trash if you want to play Ryzom as a game.

@Aleeskandaro - On a daily basis, or as compared to the effort required? I said it before and I'll say it again; just because +100 Fame alts were overpaid, that's no reason to screw over Rangers and anyone working a full-time RL job. Maybe you're misunderstanding the actual complaint?

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Gidget (3 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#48 Report | Quote[en] 

Luminatrix
Victoriacamper
You should have realised by now. Atys consists mostly of chronic complainers

And the forums consist almost solely of people who complain about people who dare complain. And the former seem to believe they have some sort of moral high ground over the latter, which is beyond ridiculous and very ironic.

I don't see why complaints are such an issue. From what I've seen, in the majority of cases, they come from a place of caring about the game and concern about the changes. We all pay the same subscription and everyone is entitled to having an opinion.

Criticizing something you enjoy in order for it to improve is not a bad thing.

So much this!

Of course, part of that is because a lot of folks don't feel like coming to such a toxic place; they see these forums as being full of freedom-hating lore-bound fanatics who want them exterminated. I can't blame them for staying away, but I can blame those who make them feel that way.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Gidget (3 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#49 Report | Quote[en] 

Gidget
On a daily basis

Just on a daily basis. For +100 fame and for 0 fame. I think we need this base value to reach an acceptable adjustment that everyone will like.

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Bisugott(Atys)


#50 Report | Quote[en] 

Aleeskandaro -- What is this digging mission you are talking about? The only things that have ever given me nation points have been Corporal missions (kill bandits) and the supply runs. (I only did occupations for the ones I needed for Roleplay or that I wanted for the end product.)

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#51 Report | Quote[en] 

If you only want the +100 fame number then are ignoring the problem; one that has has caused an increasing number of problems over the years, and that this patch has blatantly legitimized. Many (myself included) don't want to play the character some self-entitled folks who hold values that are in many cases completely opposite to ours want to play; we want to play our own characters and not be punished if we choose to not swear fealty to some government.

But since you asked nicely, I will say that if I do NOTHING else, I can do two rounds of digging get 1980 compared to the 1800 I used to, but that 180 extra points comes at the expense of being able to do ANYTHING else. Halve that for a package run as that's only once a day, and there is no savings in time as runs takes longer in lakes than the other regions. Sure, if I used my meks differently I could do other regions, but ditching/rebuying mounts is not an option as it would cause ssssoooo many logistics issues that it would not be worth the hassle, and trekking mounts into/out of lakes is it's own set of problems, so it's Lakes-only or using an alt.

As it stands, I've already seem a few players (some with multiple subs) leave as a result of just this patch and/or the backlash against those who dare criticize it that. That combined with issues that have been unresolved for years, the issues that Revvy belittles me for ever mentioning, makes me unsure that it even matters if they do get the balance right though. Even if the devs get the mechanics fixed, they cannot patch the community. It just took this patch to make some folks realize how unwelcome they really were all along.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Gidget (3 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#52 Report | Quote[en] 

Bitttymacod
Aleeskandaro -- What is this digging mission you are talking about? The only things that have ever given me nation points have been Corporal missions (kill bandits) and the supply runs. (I only did occupations for the ones I needed for Roleplay or that I wanted for the end product.)

Bittty, next to every package run mission giver theres a prospector NPC. They give those digging missions.

And afaik corporals don't give any civ points, however, as a mara, I wouldn't know ^^

Gidget
they cannot patch the community.

Very true, but luckily, the community's poison eventually dies off by itself, people who belittle and backslash others for voicing opinions eventually leave and stop playing altogether, sadly they can be very loud at times and seem much more than they really are. 

But we can talk about that on other channels :)

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So, you used to get 1800 points at 100 lake fame? Do you know how many points people with minimum fame made?

Last edited by Aleeskandaro (3 years ago)

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Bisugott(Atys)


#53 Report | Quote[en] 

Aleeskandaro
So, you used to get 1800 points at 100 lake fame? Do you know how many points people with minimum fame made?

It used to be the following way...

#54 Report | Quote[en] 

I never said anything about what one got at maximum fame, only what I got for playing one who does not place any nation over another. But as you can see from the table Moniq provided, the fame required to earn faction points at all is fairly high, and those who do swear allegiance to the only nation their guild will allow them to earned four times as much.

That lead to many hollow pledges of loyalty, and much resentment as one could not choose to play the character they wanted while still being in the same guild as their closest friends. And while the new mechanics change 4* to 2.5*, they still discourage freedom while ađding the new flaw of also being a hellacious time-suck. That goes triple in Lakes as the mission-givers are so far from civilization that it's a 10-minute trek just to take the missions and another one to turn in the mats. Why do the devs hate Trykers?

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#55 Report | Quote[en] 

I'm a very casual player that has been playing off and on for almost 8 years. When NH first came out, I felt for sure that the extremely high rewards were just temporary and would soon be corrected (i.e., within a few weeks or months). When I revisited the game a year later, I was surprised and amused the the NH was still accepting occupation products and giving out those huge rewards. Fast forward a few years later, and NH was STILL the same. This was no longer amusing and was just sad that something so obviously out of balance with the rest of the game still had not been corrected.

For me, the huge discrepancy between the NH rewards and those of the other missions made it feel like an exploit (i.e., it felt almost like cheating), and it detracted from the immersive nature of the game. Also, it made it seem like the devs were neglecting the game by allowing something so broken to persist for so long.

So regarding this patch, I say better late than never! Actually, the patches over the last couple of years look great (and with the Freemium model, it finally makes sense for a casual player like me to sub!), and they give a good impression that WG is committed to keeping the game going long-term.

I think the 54k reward for occupation products still seems high. Perhaps it would make more sense to remove the dapper reward altogether and instead reward tokens that can be used for either NH transportation or playing the wheel.

#56 Report | Quote[en] 

BTW, the Tour of the Camps missions do not need to be done on a mek. In fact, I believe that the conventional wisdom was that it was preferable to do them on foot (at least in the forest).

#57 Report | Quote[en] 

Wildsman
BTW, the Tour of the Camps missions do not need to be done on a mek. In fact, I believe that the conventional wisdom was that it was preferable to do them on foot (at least in the forest).

This is no longer accurate. For a while and a long time ago, package weight was largely reduce, so it became possible to do the tour without mek and allowed the use of TPs and such and made the tours much faster.

I'm rather a regular with casual periods player and I can either way agree with you so much. Especially since the tours were at one point so interesting and motivated so many guild events (at Armas we held them every thursday and we'd ride together 1-4 routes)... the introduction of NH and such easy rewards felt like an exploit for many of us too and of course took away interest from such a set of nicely thought missions...

Anyway... power to the players i guess x)

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Bisugott(Atys)


#58 Report | Quote[en] 

Ah, thanks for the correction. I definitely can't move with a 625 kg package in my bag!

I remember those events. So much fun! Much more fun and immersive than handing a bunch of crappy flowers to some dude hanging out behind the stables. ;)

#59 Report | Quote[en] 

NH dapper rewards were tiny compared to what overseers pay, and the fame wasn't really a draw for me; it was strictly about faction points. Also, unlike other missions, package runs cost money. Unless they want to remove the need to feed meks, the cost of 8-10 bales is something that should be compensated ... though I would not be opposed to getting two bales of concentrated forage per mission in lieu of dappers.

As for the current 54k, that's a bit much for Grade 1 but it's always confused me why the rewards were the same for all grades. And given what's available to those who can even do Grade 5/6 occupations, 54k is also conditionally low too. But now that NH gives no points, occupations have no point anyways, nor (aside from Scrollmaker and G1 Larvester) will they unless product use times are cut, so NH rewards are moot.

Oh, and the idea of rewarding tokens should be a "choose your reward" thing if it happens or there will be even less incentive to do anything for NH. Sure, some may argue that it'd get more people to play the wheel, but I'd counter that that assumes people won't just quit. Whether they quit NH missions or Ryzom may vary,but either way it won't work as intended.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Gidget (3 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#60 Report | Quote[en] 

Aleeskandaro
Bittty, next to every package run mission giver theres a prospector NPC. They give those digging missions.

That might explain it, since I never did package runs. :D Thanks.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>
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