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Refused


Is that a good idea? / Ist das eine gute Idee? / C'est une bonne idée ?
Yes (Write what could develop positively) / Ja (Schreib, was sich positiv entwickeln könnte) / Oui (Écrivez ce qui pourrait évoluer positivement)
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No (write what would be wrong with it) / Nein (Schreib, was falsch daran wäre) / Non (écrivez ce qui ne va pas avec)
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14 (4)
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Other thoughts (write it down) / Andere Gedanken (Schreib es auf) / Autres pensées (écrivez-les)
Atys: Agy, Balkhog, Heernis, Placio
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Other 0
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#56 [fr] 

Balkhog
- soit la possibilité de guilder un homin de n'importe quelle faction avec comme l'a dit Ekoh, la possibilité d'une coalition entre guildes.

En aucun cas je n'ai validé la proposition initial, je suis même contre celle-ci. Une guilde doit avoir un minimum de sens dans un jeu comme Ryzom sinon, comme dit plus haut autant créer un groupe FB/discord/autres…

La coalition, c'est un regroupement de guilde -temporaire- une league amélioré qui résiste au déco/reco et plus pratique parce qu'il y aurait certaines fonctions utile pour mener à bien la mission fixé par celle-ci, ce serait donc plus qu'un simple chat multi-groupe qui est perdu à la déco.

La coalition devrait couté un bras à la création et avoir une durée maximum (30 jours ?).
Lorsque l'objectif (sélection dans une liste, donc pas de truc freestyle) est réalisé ou que la durée arrive a son terme deux options, la dissolution ou la reconduction pour un autre objectif.
Un objectif à la fois, chaque objectif devrait couté un bras en dappers.
Si c'est une reconduction pour avoir du temps, pareil, on lâche les dappers.

Certain type de coalition pourraient bénéficier d'un allégement comme la défense face à une invasion kitin, mais cette option ne pourrait être dispo que s'il y a bien une invasion kitin et pour la durée évidement quand l'invasion est repoussée la Coa. serait dissout rapidement.

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#57 Multilingual 

Multilingual | Français | [English] | Deutsch
For Ryzom team, Ryzom is a MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game).
It is based on a developed Lore, which, for Ryzom is not just a collection of traditions or chronicles from a bygone era. It is also the main plot of Atys events, the large-scale and long-term scenario, the Ryzom Saga, and thus defined, it lays the foundations for the past, the present and the future. The roleplay actions of the players influence the Lore and are taken into consideration by those who write it. While there may be some fixed milestones in the Saga, the player actions can entirely change large parts of it. Roleplay is therefore an essential driver of the game.

It is not required to practice role-playing on Ryzom and a large part of the community does not practice it, either by choice or because they didn't have the opportunity to learn how to play this way.

But part of the community chooses to actively "live" the Saga and these players have become the roleplay players, integrating and developing their character(s) into the game world. The roleplay remains at the heart of the game and the gameplay (or "mechanics" of the game) has to support it by certain limitations (such as the restrictions on guild invitations, the fames' system, the tribal allegiances, etc.) or additions (such as the future "anti-kitin" weapons). And that is why the present proposal to remove the gameplay limitation on guild invitations cannot be accepted.

However, we thank Heernis for his involvement and proposal, even though it was rejected, and encourage him to continue making suggestions.

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com



Ryzom Forge Wiki

#58 [en] 

One topic not considered is that many folks looking to complete what the game offers ... because they have mastered all the skills they care to and chase fame. But after maxing out what ya can for your race and faction, you can't completely max out without quitting ya guild . heck ya can't even complete all the rites unless if you choose citizenship before getting all the rites done.

Where I get confused tho, is I understand how now one would want to be be forced to do something, for the life of me I can not understand why folks are all fired up about what other people want to do. If my wife converts to another religion, must I divorce her ? What about my kids ? If my sister marries a Canadian girl and gets citizenship there, must I disown her ? ... oh wait yeah if Canadian, makes sense < kidding>.

The French and the English both sided with US against the other in history ,,,, all 3 were against Germany 70 years ago.... things change, people grow. We have "nice maras" now ! Should e all storm off the server as the server merge brought french, english, Americana and german folk together ? What's wrong with growth, enlightenment, ;learning tolerance, changing of minds. Might as well make all people of their respective races wear only their on race armor.

In short, I don't see why we need a rule that says if ya were born in Germany, you can't eat kielbasa. And i say that as a person who hasn't eaten meat in 46 years :)

I don't much care whether ya like kielbasa or bratwurst as long as i don't gotta eat either. I don't really see how the proposal forces anything down anyone throats.

Last edited by Tamarea (7 months ago) | Reason: Edit to activate the good language.

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#59 [en] 

Tamarea
But part of the community chooses to actively "live" the Saga and these players have become the roleplay players, integrating and developing their character(s) into the game world. The roleplay remains at the heart of the game and the gameplay (or "mechanics" of the game) has to support it by certain limitations (such as the restrictions on guild invitations, the fames' system, the tribal allegiances, etc.) or additions (such as the future "anti-kitin" weapons). And that is why the present proposal to remove the gameplay limitation on guild invitations cannot be accepted.

How can I roleplay a guild that invites Karavan homins with the goal to convert them into Kami?

What if the Tryker and Fyros conspire to destroy the Matis? Why can a Tryker citizen not join with a Fyros guild?

Tamarea
It is based on a developed Lore, which, for Ryzom is not just a collection of traditions or chronicles from a bygone era. It is also the main plot of Atys events, the large-scale and long-term scenario, the Ryzom Saga, and thus defined, it lays the foundations for the past, the present and the future. The roleplay actions of the players influence the Lore and are taken into consideration by those who write it. While there may be some fixed milestones in the Saga, the player actions can entirely change large parts of it. Roleplay is therefore an essential driver of the game.

That's great marketing material, but the game as it is NO LONGER TELLS THE STORY. You used to start in your civilization's own land, got indoctrinated with a civilization-biased version of the lore, which set up a wonderful stage for RP. Right now, as a new player, you're dropped into cross-civilization fantasy-land. The story that's being told is the one of goody-two-shoes versus the Kitins and the goo. Oh, and there's bandits. And factions, but you shouldn't trust them so they're not really important, they're just teleport points now.

There's no wonder and awe left as you're doing your first cross-continent travel. You've already seen the whole rainbow on the starter island.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Kaetemi (7 months ago)

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Kaetemi

#60 [fr] 

Autant, je suis contre l'idée d'avoir une guilde avec des kamis et des kara, car jamais la karavan ou les kamis n'accepterons que des membres de leur faction ne trainent avec l'ennemie. Donc il est impossible pour un homin de passer le rite kara s'il est dans une guilde pro-kami. Ce qui n'empêche pas les homins de tendance kami ou kara d'être ensemble dans une guilde neutre. Mais ils ne devront pas passer le rite kami/kara, car les puissances ne le voudront jamais.

Par contre, pour les guildes multi nation, ça ne parait pas déconnant à première vue, car oui, les nations peuvent accepter qu'un citoyen fyros soit dans une guilde avec des citoyen tryker. Mais par contre, je ne pense pas que l'empire accepterait que des citoyens fyros soient dans une guilde avec des sujets matis.
ça voudrait dire, si on veut respecter la lore, c'est à dire comment se positionnent les différentes nations (je parle bien des nations, pas des homins), que certains peuples ne peuvent cohabiter dans une même guilde. Par exemple, tryker et fyros ça va, mais matis et fyros, ça va pas. Ce serait compliqué à mon sens. En plus il faudrait que ça puisse évoluer suivant l'histoire en cours, et les tractations diplomatique. Par exemple, de base, tryker et zorai ne s'entendent pas (au niveau de la fame), mais au niveau de l'histoire, en ce moment, l'entente est au beau fixe. Donc même si en théorie, je serais pour, dans les faits, je suis plutôt contre les guildes multi nation.

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fyros pure sève
akash i orak, talen i rechten!
élucubrations
biographie

#61 [fr] 

Le sujet n'a pas lieu d'etre encore une fois..
Il ne faut pas confondre un element de gameplay qui a pour but de guider le joueur (le client) dans le fonctionnement du jeu, avec l'element de roleplay associé à la Lore
(meme si le gameplay doit faire concession ou/et s'adapter pour sublimer l'element de roleplay).

Kaetemi
That's great marketing material, but the game as it is NO LONGER TELLS THE STORY. You used to start in your civilization's own land, got indoctrinated with a civilization-biased version of the lore, which set up a wonderful stage for RP. Right now, as a new player, you're dropped into cross-civilization fantasy-land. The story that's being told is the one of goody-two-shoes versus the Kitins and the goo. Oh, and there's bandits. And factions, but you shouldn't trust them so they're not really important, they're just teleport points now.

There's no wonder and awe left as you're doing your first cross-continent travel. You've already seen the whole rainbow on the starter island.
Je suis totalement d'accord avec toi.
Silan est une erreur sur bien des niveaux, il faudrait dans un futur tres proche repenser l'approche du jeu pour les nouveaux clients.

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#62 [en] 

Kaetemi
How can I roleplay a guild that invites Karavan homins with the goal to convert them into Kami?

What if the Tryker and Fyros conspire to destroy the Matis? Why can a Tryker citizen not join with a Fyros guild?

Not trying to be sarcastic and working hard to not make it sound that way but I would think "same way you are now ?"

If someone wants to invite Karavan into "their" guild, I have to think they could possibly have that goal or, more likely, they don't give a mektoub dropping either way. As I remember the lore, never fully developed in game to my disappointment, the Trytonists were hominists ... and thumbed their noses at the religions.

I don't have feelings either way ... we have all races represented in guild tho I think only kami and rangers. But if one of our guildmates wanted to switch to another faction, I'd be disappointed if they needed to leave the guild if they didn't want to.

But main point being, it is not mandatory. I don't like Body Piercings ... the idea of "lets make holes in my body and hang shiny metal things never made sense to me. But if anyone else wants to hang, can't think of why I'd have an objection to that.

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#63 [en] 

Fyrosfreddy - Impartialty and tolerance are things that the mechanics did not allow for, and now it's official that they won't (at least not anytime soon) because "neutral" has different meanings to different people. You and I agree, but we are and will always remain outsiders here, so our opinions do not matter.

Kaetami - If you feel the sense of wonder and awe is lost because Silan allows for co-mingling of races and cultures, then I have questions that I really don't think are appropriate to discuss here. Personally, if I started in the old pre-Silan starter islands that had no diversity then I would've assumed racism was considered a virtue on Atys and left early on on general principle.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#64 [en] 

Gidget - Not sure if you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. I'm in favor of mixing civilizations, but... the story that was originally being told was one of separated civilizations slowly coming together despite their cultural biases. That story is lost now.

Having everyone together from the start, and then splitting them up to different mainland, and then not letting guilds intermingle civilizations... is backwards.

Just to reiterate, I'm in favour of allowing 'conflicting' civilization memberships in guilds. Using the story as an excuse to not allow it, shows a painful ignorance (by Forge/WG) of the overarching themes (of working together despite differences) in the story.

Edited 5 times | Last edited by Kaetemi (7 months ago)

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Kaetemi

#65 [en] 

Fyrosfreddy
As I remember the lore, never fully developed in game to my disappointment, the Trytonists were hominists ... and thumbed their noses at the religions.
Guild of Elias, yes. Except, Tryton doesn't have the resources for resurrecting people (it does require energy...), so homins still have to grudgingly pander to one of the higher powers for that privilege (resurrection is not a right), and try to do their Elias business in secrecy. (You're better of as a secret society if you're being hunted down by the higher powers.)

(Another good lore-founded reason to allow mixing up conflicting factions.)

Then again, Tryton cares only about homins. Extremist hominist, really. Doesn't care about Atys' ecosystem or anything.

It's a story of environmentalists vs industrialists (vs hominists), that now got replaced with goody-two-shoes vs the evil religions and bandits.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Kaetemi (7 months ago)

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Kaetemi

#66 [en] 

Kaetemi
Gidget - Not sure if you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. I'm in favor of mixing civilizations, but... the story that was originally being told was one of separated civilizations slowly coming together despite their cultural biases. That story is lost now.

Ah. That was not how I originally read "There's no wonder and awe left as you're doing your first cross-continent travel. You've already seen the whole rainbow on the starter island.", so I was actually a little confused which way you were going there. It seemed like you were going both ways.

As far as "That story being lost", I'm not really sure that it's a bad thing to learn history by reading about it rather than reenacting it.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#67 [en] 

My belief is that the story can be told more powerfully by experiencing it. Especially for new players. ESPECIALLY if we want to capture new players into the game. (And even more if we allow them the freedom to mold the story progression themselves, and join each other's guilds freely. ;) ~ Staying on topic ~)

Even if further down in the story everyone gets together and lives happily ever after in their New Ranger Utopia, the starter islands could still be run by a bunch of old intolerant farts (plot devices), to stir some drama. The "everlasting backstory" can be experienced simultaneously with "dynamic current events". Anachronisms really are possible, since everyone can have their own beliefs. :)

A Ranger Utopia that's taken for granted (Silan) is a boring storytelling situation. (It's a Ryzom theme park.) But a Ranger Utopia after a heavy conflict, that was worked for, (as a high level / endgame zone) is a very powerful symbol.

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Kaetemi

#68 [en] 

I feel that that turns the story into a stagnant "Groundhogs Day" scenario as it must remain stuck in the past for new players. Or, if we start out with the "intolerant farts" tutorial, it's "bait and switch" misrepresentation.

Silan isn't meant to be exciting; it's meant to be educational with just enough excitement to keep people interested in hitting Mainland. It's not meant to tell the story, only to introduce you to the story.

But I think the real rift is between those who feel intolerance is a virtue that must be preserved by continuing to enforce segregation and those who feel that the future can and should be something other than a faithful reproduction of the past even if that means (gasp!) change.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#69 [en] 

Gidget
Or, if we start out with the "intolerant farts" tutorial, it's "bait and switch" misrepresentation.
Silan is also a bait and switch. :)

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Kaetemi

#70 [en] 

Kaetemi
Except, Tryton doesn't have the resources for resurrecting people (it does require energy...), so homins still have to grudgingly pander to one of the higher powers for that privilege

I don't think I understand ... in the 6 months I have been gone, have Rangers / neutrals been denied healing spells or respawn points ?

As has been said before ... people have had different experiences on each server. In US, where every Ryzom player had 20 friends playing WoW for each Ryzom player they knew, we were coming from a different starting PoV. In US folks had WoW and 20 other MMOs to choose from. The folks that *chose* Ryzom did so because it was NOT WoW or one of the other PvP is everything MMOs. As such, when PvP happened we lost most of our player base. We recovered that when the player base decided to ignore game mechanics / lore and adopting a player mindset of "letting folks play the game they wanted" and **respecting** their choice**. There was planty of PvP to had and afterwards, folks from oppsing sides were in mixed teams grinding or chasing bosses

Everybody, witha few notable exceptions, got a long ... winning a battle because your side controlled access to boss mats, sups, OP produce was considered an empty victory so everything was openly traded. I never got into the PvP but guild members chose their own way, It was not unusual for the side with overwhelming numbers to say "Any gulds want to make this more fun and fight foi the other side ?" When playing pick up basketball, stickball whatever growing up in Brookly, the next game didn't start until the losing team picked a player from the other side and sent one of their own back. Winning all the time is boring; and if losing all the time, people stay home or do something else..

So this type of behavior that North outlined, we just didn't see because if you came "late to the show", you were likely invited and if ya needed the mats, you could trade or ask for them since it was routine. For the 200 and below, most guilds can't even give away the stuff among their own factions so what's the point in hoarding 500 QL200 mats when someone could benefit from them.

For the 250 OPs I can understand somehwat but are we really in a situation where there's not enough to go around. Looking at our sub numbers that wouldn't appear to be the case. When I see this "boss stealing"activity" occur, the only question that comes to mind is "Why is having a "equipment advantage" so important; wouldn't folks feel better about a victory over an opponent that didn't have an inheterent disadvantage ? So yes, the game mechanics do have a deficiency with respect to what North outlined. But I have to say I am disappoinjted that the player base can't find a way to deal with it honorably among themselves until such time as a fix is im place.

Last edited by Fyrosfreddy (7 months ago)

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