Refused


Do you think this is a good idea?
Yes, it is a good idea pretty much as is 2
6.5%
Yes, it's a nice idea but could use a bit of polish 3
9.7%
No, but I have an idea that I think could work 1
3.2%
No, I think there is no problem so this is not needed 8
25.8%
No, I think Around is the RP channel even though many others disagree 14 (3)
45.2%
Other 3
9.7%
Abstain 5
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#24 [en] 

[EDIT] This answer brings a judgment from others, which does not bring anything constructive to the debate.

Last edited by Tamarea (2 years ago)

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#25 [en] 

Mithian
( Not constructive at all, but can't hold myeself anymore :)

« Don't worry, honey, hide behind the blanket, the big bad RP won't be there anymore tomorrow when you'll woke up. »

That's really how it seems to me. Instead of accepting the fact RP is a big part of Ryzom, it's better to hide it, make a new channel RP dedicated. How weird, that's mostly the same people who cry for years because they don't want to be forced to play a certain way...

Actually, it is constructive insofar as it's exactly that sort of behavior that made me think that this might be needed. [EDIT] Non-constructive comment.
How it seems to me is that there is a very vocal contingent who feels that anyone who uses the Around channel for not-RP is "doing it wrong", and there is a misconception that somehow RPers are more privileged/entitled than non-RP "peons". Sure, a lot of RPers are not that way, but enough are that way that RP gets a bad rep. And that's a shame and a disservice to the decent RP folks. Now, if you want more people to RP, then it would be in your best interest to make sure RP is seen in a more favorable light than it currently is by so many people.

You are also overlooking the fact that the User tab in chat has all channels enabled by default, so unless someone specifically and explicitly takes intentional action to opt out, it's not really hidden. (That fact takes a bit of the edge off of Jellona's argument as well, but we can address that later.) You will not be hidden unless they want to hide you, so unless you make people want to find a way to hide you, you have nothing to fear from that.

Yes, RP is a part of Ryzom, but how big a part is it? There is no universal consensus. And where there no consensus or compromise, there is conflict. I proposed an option with the intended purpose of turning conflict into compromise by allowing non-RP to tune out stuff they have no desire to deal with being told they are doing it wrong in a manner that does not deprive them of the Around channel. Do you want to deprive people of the ability to opt out? If so, how is that not forcing your way on others? How is giving non-RP folks the option to tune out unwanted dialog depriving RPers in the immediate vicinity the ability to RP?

Last edited by Tamarea (2 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#26 [en] 

That's probably why i've said that's not constructive at all.

And yep, that's exactly the same thing, just different point of view. Non RP players cry because they don't want to be forced to respect RP rules or whatever you want, but, RPers cry because non RP players don't care about it at all on an MMO based RP ;)

Tho, i think i like the idea on a color ( only one dedicated to show RP message on Around, i think no one want to have a rainbow on /s channel for RP.
[EDIT] Judgment of others, not bringing anything constructive to the debate.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tamarea (2 years ago)

#27 [en] 

@Gidget

That's the point, i'm not RPing rn since.... Forum isn't RP ( Except dedicated part of it... ) so, your argument is quite.. unlucky :P

And... Don't try to say something like " Yeah, if i don't RP, that's because of RPers behavior. " You don't RP because you don't like to or just because that's not the way you want to play. And that's the same for at least 90% of the non RP players.

Maybe some rejected RP because they had bad experience of it, but most just don't care.

Maybe with an explanation of different kind of RP and habits... Some would maybe understand it and like to learn it, but, that's on an another topic.

#28 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français
+1 for the RP tag and different color on around : not forcing anyone to do anything and making it really obvious that this is RP. Maybe with a pop up the first time you active it explaining in a few line what it's for? Same kind of pop up you have the first time you go on UNI chat; I'm pretty sure everyone got to read this one as it's quite unexpected!

(#TROLL-ON And we should add a 24h timer on this tag because you know, RP is something people should not take lightly hihi ♥ #TROLL-OFF )

Last edited by Zarden (2 years ago)

#29 [en] 

Luminatrix
...

I don't know how good of an idea this is but a Roleplay tag that causes the tagged player's text in the Around channel a different color could also be a thing, maybe? We could use a Roleplay tag anyway.

...
The best idea so far :)

#30 [en] 

Gidget
Sinvaders
"No, I think Around is the RP channel even though many others disagree"

Many others agree.
Yes, there are many on both sides of the issue. I put that option there for the sake of those who feel maintaining the status quo (conflict, confusion, and all) is preferable to any solution that requires change.

By adding "many others disagree" in this particular choice, you are just willing to give the orientation you are looking to the result. Your answer is nothing more than bad faith.

#31 Multilingual 

Multilingual | Français | [English]
How complicated you guys are really... :)

Adding 2 lines in a channel at the connection and this is the tragedy of the century, I am really disappointed to see the communities so juvenile.

You remind me of childrens fighting over a lollipop when there's a full pack right next to it, because "it's mine!"....

But I understand better why Ryzom hasn't progressed for a long time, if all the ideas, however simple they may be, drag on in debate for months to reach something completely different at the end ^^

If it would have been added without your notice, you would have thought it was a great idea.
Please no lies, be real.


The goal was also to get the new player to hear the word Roleplay, to have familiarity with it from the very beginning, certainly not to be obliged to do so.
As a result, in addition to having the benefit of officially preventing and informing, there could have been vocations created, and desires.
So possibly a new breath for Ryzom, through education, not obligation.

Looking for a Roleplay tag in an obscure game configuration, and we move away from the basic idea for our young players (and old.. it seem..).


Gidget, Your behavior is very worrying, especially regarding your obsession with my forum posts.
Not to mention your non-neutral voting choices, as well as your twists and turns on all my subjects, it is a flagrant example of this reality.

And I hope people will have the decency to realize it.

[EDIT] Non-constructive comment.


Now I let you all discuss this subject, which has become so complicated, moving away from the idea that you have decided to bury yourself.

Where the goal is no longer to simply help, prevent and inform, in order to live better together... but to isolate, and mark the players as different.

This is your world Gidget, not mine, and I leave it to you with pleasure.

Many players play a role in the game through extremism, and therefore are detestable as a choice.
But you... You don't play a role, and I have to admit it scares me.

The ideas you convey are extremist and encourage the difference, IRL this time... its not a role.

(I would therefore not vote, since the proposed choices are clearly not neutral, and are oriented towards your own person, which is quite disappointing).


Thank you.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Tamarea (2 years ago)

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#32 [fr] 

Zarden
+1 pour le tag RP qui donne une couleur différente en alentours : ça laisse chacun libre de ses choix et rend sans équivoque que la personne fait du RP. Peut-être avec un pop up la première fois que le joueur l'active, expliquant en quelques lignes à quoi il sert? Le même genre de pop up qui apparait la première fois qu'on se connecte en chat UNI; ce pop up étant assez inattendu je suis certain que tout le monde l'a lu!

(#TROLL-ON Et il faudrait ajouter un timer de 24 sur ce tag car le RP, ce n'est pas une chose à faire à moitié hihi ♥ #TROLL-OFF )
+1on se relaxe, on respire... Y a de la place pour tous, Atys est immense :p

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Mon profil sur le wiki Francais https://fr.wiki.ryzom.com/wiki/Utilisatrice:Craftjenn


Craftjenn, Ranger

#33 [en] 

Gidget
It seems that some folks like to use Around strictly for RP while others like to use it to chat (often OOC) with un-teamed homins in the immediate vicinity without the hassles of making teams or leagues that dissolve as soon as the conversation is over. And that has led to a bit of conflict between those who have differing views on what Around is really for.

I'm not quite sure how anyone couldn't just form a cohesive, grammatically correct sentence. Because that's literally all that's needed to have it pass for being RP (even if it's not intented as such).

So instead of trying to come up with even more complications for the game, rather teach people some basic linguistic skills maybe?

#34 [en] 

Mithian
@Gidget

That's the point, i'm not RPing rn since.... Forum isn't RP ( Except dedicated part of it... ) so, your argument is quite.. unlucky :P

And... Don't try to say something like " Yeah, if i don't RP, that's because of RPers behavior. " You don't RP because you don't like to or just because that's not the way you want to play. And that's the same for at least 90% of the non RP players.

Maybe some rejected RP because they had bad experience of it, but most just don't care.

Maybe with an explanation of different kind of RP and habits... Some would maybe understand it and like to learn it, but, that's on an another topic.

It's interesting that you apparently know what thoughts I had around 5 years ago. Back when I was completely new to the game, I was willing to dabble in RP but the role players I encountered were so awful that it made me go "okay yeah no thanks".

I've never done RP in an MMO before. But I'm an avid D&D player so I'm no stranger to the concept. I'd be up for dipping my toes into Ryzom RP to see if I like it. But, despite the fact that you refuse to believe it (again, apparently you can read my thoughts but...you need glasses), I am once again turned off by the condescending, patronising attitude of the role players I have run into. I'm not saying the entire RP community is like that (I'm sure most of them are lovely people) but the attitude of some is more than enough to make me steer clear and keep my roleplaying to D&D.

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#35 [en] 

[EDIT] Non-constructive comment.

Last edited by Tamarea (2 years ago)

#36 [en] 

@Revvy - Once again, I feel that 2 lines, no matter how well-intended, is insufficient.  [EDIT] Non-constructive comment.

Your lollipop analogy amuses me; lets roll with it. From my perspective, there have been so many people grabbing my lollipop for years while shoving their lollipop in my mouth and telling me to stop touching their lollipop.

Oh, and I do play a role. I am the one who does what others will not, whether it be clearing a path down the ramp in Great Outback wearing nothing but skivvies and a grin so that squishies may continue their trek to Zora, or pointing at the elephant in the room and saying, "Isn't it time we talked about this?". I am the one who gets people to think, whether it be educating the young or shaking the old from their hidebound complacency. I am not any of the traditional archetypes and don't fit into a conventional mold though, so I can see why you don't understand the role I play.

Lastly, I don't exactly encourage differences so much as simply acknowledge them, try to respect everyone's right to individuality, and seek compromise even if that means stripping one side of privilege for the sake of equity. I want us all to get along as players even if our characters are in conflict, but that requires all sides to give a little.

@Sinvaders - Maybe that was a poor choice of phrasing, but I've seen a minority think they are a landslide majority simply because they're obnoxiously loud often enough to feel the need to remind folks that there's more to demographics than merely how much you scream.

@Neira - For largely the same reason I feel Revvy's 2-line idea is not a real solution.

@Mithian - We actually agree more than I have time to elaborate on right now. I spent so much time on Revvy that I'll have to get back to you after work.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Tamarea (2 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#37 [en] 

Gidget
@Neira - For largely the same reason I feel Revvy's 2-line idea is not a real solution.

This hardly provided any further information (comparable to the opening post of this thread).
I'm not going to work my way through the pages of this thread where one might be able to find additional information as to what your point of view may or may not be just because the opening post failed to make an argument on its own.

Additional channels will just separate the already small community more.
Segregation as by your idea stands against a marginal amount of decency if we're following @Revvy's proposal.

You're either supporting segregation or believe people are too illiterate and wilfully disruptive to have the tact adjusting their posting manners in an appropriate way.
Take your pick.

Last edited by Neira (2 years ago)

#38 Multilingual 

Multilingual | Français | [English]
I’m really misunderstanding now…
Someone is proposing to prevent, and now another one is proposing to isolate RP player. Why? Does RP to much noticeable? Does to many means are used for RP development, interaction and event?
Seriously, I’m asking if it a true proposal or just a joke… The separate RP server idea made by Dukenono is as credible…
Let’s talk about all that arguments:
- “RP player want to monopolize the around channel for RP only then there aren’t any convention for that.” No, RP player just want to add two poor line for prevent that around channel MAYBE use for RP interaction.
- "How it seems to me is that there is a very vocal contingent who feels that anyone who uses the Around channel for not-RP is "doing it wrong", and there is a misconception that somehow RPers are more privileged/entitled than non-RP "peons".” As you’ve said, this concern a noisy minority. Thanks to don’t make amalgam.
- “RP player are a minority, why make so much efforts for them?” NO SHIT Sherlock! 90% of RP player have quit the game next to the merge, because all of their fun have been destroy!

Finally, as this thread seem to be a sophism party, I’ll conclude my post by a argumentum ad personam to you Gidget: As well you’ve said, you’re playing at unconventional hours, so your point of view is probably bad, why would we listen you…?

Last edited by Tamarea (2 years ago) | Reason: Edit to add language tags.

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