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Give Rewards for Multi-Masters Part 1: Fight Skills - IDEAS FOR RYZOM - Ryzom Community ForumHomeGuest



#18 [en] 

c) This point is related to b). The answer that most people give is that because this is Atys; and we love Atys; or that Atys is about the journey and not the destination etc. Well yes; but that's not really an answer for competitive gamers.
In my not-so-humble opinion, Ryzom has never been about "competitive" gamers, but rather "cooperative gamers." Attempts to force competition have generally failed (at least on Arispotle -- I can't speak for the other two servers).

The only reason that I can see for the proposed "goodies" is to make some toons more uber than others. As I stated before, the fact that in the end we are all equal once we have mastered things is (again IMNSHO) a feature to be cherished, not a bug to be cured. (The Fear bug -- that's a true bug, and should be fixed.)

And also for some most unfortunate RL comparisons that some people made in this thread: I didn't see an army filled with peasants and farmers being able to emerge victorious and win a war vs an actual army in the history of the world.
Actually if you have 100 desperate peasants who are skillful with bill-hooks and clubs, they will most certainly beat up twenty or forty knights. Peasant revolts are common in history. They generally succeed for a while, driving off the lords and their armored fighters, then fail in the end because the rulers get together more armored fighters and manage to take out the charismatic peasant leaders.

War is either numbers or *vastly superior* weaponry. Unless the PvP system is drastically changed (which you have not proposed) numbers will still win OP battles.

I have played real life low-tech combat with armor and weapons. (Society for Creative Anachronism) I was even skilled enough to sometimes take down both opponents in a 2 v 1 fight, as long as they were substantially inferior and they were not coordinated in their actions. If they were coordinated, they could take down me or any other single person. In our "wars", with a numerical advantage of 40% (i.e. 350 v 250) the larger force will win. Period. The skill level of the forces is not important, the organization is.

This is, of course, not relevant to suggested changes in Ryzom, but it makes me doubt some of your other categorical statements.

Last edited by Bitttymacod (10 months ago)


Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#19 [en] 

First off, I fail to see how a Spirit of War really deserves a cookie. Each weapon has it's strengths and weaknesses, and I think that simply having the ability to choose the optimal weapon for a given situation without your base skill going below 250 is (or at least should be) benefit enough. Northstar raises a valid point about weapons not being quite as unique as they probably should be, but weapon balancing is a separate issue that I think warrants a separate discussion elsewhere. For now, lets just say that maybe rebalancing weapons might make mastering more than a handful of weapons useful for more than just getting a title and move on.

Back on topic. That "Spirit of War" title is to acknowledge your commitment/persistence, not your actual martial prowess; anyone can swap weapons and grind a few dozen masters, but they will still be inferior to a toon with less skill controlled by a player with more skill. Having gotten all weapon skills to 250 doesn't actually mean you mastered anything at all, so it becomes a question of whether we are rewarding skill or simply giving a cookie to whoever has the most free time.

Second, I believe Bittty is correct about numbers and about the historical precedent. Unless we are talking about serious gaps in equipment or player aptitude, numbers will win nearly every time. I think it safe to assume that all of the serious PvPers here are roughly equal in terms of skill and gear though, so it all comes down to numbers. It's as true in Ryzom as it is IRL. However, actual armies are often vastly better equipped than peasants, and most peasants would rather not fight a disciplined force with superior equipment, which means that any government that tries can achieve numerical superiority relatively easily.

As an aside on Northstar's observation that RP winds up dying as a result, it's worth remembering that there is a wiiiiiiide range of commitment to RP. I've had some rude things said to me simply because I belong to a Karavan guild yet have non-Karavan friends... including my fellow Rangers. One possible reason for RP "dying" is that some people overestimate how committed to RP others were in the first place, sometimes to the point of belittling others for not being 120% into RP. When you get casual RP'ers to just shake their heads, walk away, and let their subscriptions lapse, that doesn't do any of us any favors.


Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.
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