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Discussion around the Scenographic Editor and the Scenario Editor - DISCUSSIONS AROUND ONGOING PROJECTS - Ryzom Community ForumHomeGuest

DISCUSSIONS AROUND ONGOING PROJECTS


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#16 Report | QuoteMultilingual 

Multilingual | Français | [English]
Quickly, because i don't want to fully translate myself in english, ask google for that.

Just to say that's it's look very promising and is a good first step and gift for the new years on atys !

Ho and it's not really an "addition" it's more like "the return of the ring - One Ring to keep them all, One Ring to amuse them, One Ring to unit them all, and in the power-to-player bind them."

:D

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Osquallo
Les rêveries du yubo flaneur
The musings of the rambling yubo

#17 Report | QuoteMultilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Deutsch
Call for Experience Exchange about Scenographic Editor

Hello all,

I would like to start a discussion about the new scenographic editor. The purpose would be to exchange experiences made, and to work on something like an introductury tutorial, howto, and best practices using the SE.

Personally, I have not come utterly far until now, but I am working on. If people already created scenarios, screenshots, or even movies, would be great.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tamarea (2 years ago)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#18 Report | QuoteMultilingual 

Summary of already existing forum topics that are probably useful:

Description of the Editor, with some explaining screenshots in post 1
http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/26321/

A brief guide in post 1, and my feedback in post 4
http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/26338/

What I have created with it, post 1 and 14
http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/26346/

I will try to answer questions as far as I can, but I’m only a normal user with some 3D graphics knowledge. :)



Zusammenfassung der bereits existierenden möglicherweise nützlichen Forums Themen:

Beschreibung des Editors, mit einigen erklärenden Screenshots Post 1
http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/26321/

Eine kurze Anleitung in Post 1, und mein Feedback in Post 4
http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/26338/

Was ich damit erstellt habe, Post 1 und 14
http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/26346/

Ich werde versuchen Fragen so weit wie möglich zu beantworten, aber ich bin nur ein normaler Benutzer mit etwas 3D Grafik Kenntnissen. :)

Edited 8 times | Last edited by Yubina (2 years ago) | Reason: multilanguage topic does not work...

#19 Report | Quote[de] 

Ich sollte vielleicht noch kurz näher erläutern was mein Problem hier ist.
Ich gehe nach oben genannter (zugegebener maßen etwas dürftigen) Anleitung und ich habe offensichtlich genug Kenntnisse mit Programmen dieser Art, dass ich mich fast intuitiv zurecht finde.
Leider konnte ich viele Fragen die an mich gerichtet wurden bisher nicht beantworten, da es um zukünftige Funktionen oder aktuelle Bugs ging.

Aber zur Bedienung, wo genau hakt es denn?

#20 Report | QuoteMultilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français
Topic to publish all your feedbacks around "A Scenographic editor at your disposal!" ongoing project: comments, questions, bugs report, improvement proposals...

Last edited by Tamarea (2 years ago)

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com



Ryzom Forge Wiki

#21 Report | Quote

Topic moved.

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com



Ryzom Forge Wiki

#22 Report | Quote[en] 

Ulukyn (dev) is currently working to add the possibility to move a scene in public mode, so all the players will be able to visit it.

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com



Ryzom Forge Wiki

#23 Report | Quote[en] 

Hi Yubina, I already mailed to you (finally, sry for the delay), and thanks for all your comments.
Yubina
..
Aber zur Bedienung, wo genau hakt es denn? (concerning the usage, what's the problem?)

As far as the SE is concerned, I have been using it quite a while only achieving minimal results. One have to take into account that graphic editors are roughly as familiar to me as the code of a Unix device driver to an average gamer.

I am fully aware that such stuff cannot be explained in five minutes. What I'm looking for would be a step-by-step guide for getting started and progressing towards creative and fascinating scenarios.

If you enter the SE as a complete newcomer, you are asked to enter a scenery name, which is trivial. After that, you may be getting lost already. Well, if you come to browse the graphic elements (shapes) offered, you may or may not find something useable intuitively. But you may be struck down by the variety of only partially (if at all) usable stuff as well. When starting in the wrong place, for example, in city elements, you may get completely lost. I have not figured out til now how to combine the shapes of the cities' sets into a complete house much less a street or a square.

To put it more systematically: You learn to open a scenario defining a top-level data structure (scenario, private or public), fine. Below is the hierarchy group, but it remains somewhat unclear why groups do exist at all and how to define and edit the first and subsequent ones and how to combine them (ok, one may imagine, but examples for useful group combinations would help).

And then you have the lowest hierarchy level, shapes, three-dimensional graphic elements being thematically organized. This distinction (shape groups) is more or less self-explanatory/speaking, but often rather less (the naming should be worked on, no criticism intended, and an index of shape groups togetger with some documentation and explanation would help a lot). The shapes proper are not uncomplicated, either. Some shapes are "complete", such as plants, water, certain buildings, many generic shapes. Some shapes do not appear at all if you try to activate them.

Other shapes, such as mobs, appear as transparent white structures. I do not know if such a mob may be "dyed" (eg White Kitin of the Depths, green or red-and-white Kiro etc.) and how, and whether he/she/ it moves, or even attacks, afterwards. Or whether you can modify the weapons and may wield/store/exchange them. Probably I am doing the twentieth step before the first one with such considerations.

But right there is my problem: I do not see how a graphics beginner may start. learn and advance, how to fail, learn, correct. The SE certainly is a powerful tool, but what I am missing is a tutorial for the unexperienced starter (when introducing somebody to C, I am starting by hello world, and not by double indirection of an array of function pointers - everyone would be running away screaming if I did) . From my part this is not a complaint or whining about something not yet existing, rather an attempt of analyzing the problem and attempting a project proposal how to get people interested in this tool avoiding unnecessary frustration and finding a way to familiarize with it. I'm sure the SE is a powerful tool, but the way it is looking so far, I do not know if it is motivating a lot of players. But it would be a pity if it could not.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#24 Report | Quote[en] 

100% I agree with Daomei's words. I'm excited about the editor and the player creativity that can be explored with it. Though I am fairly adept with a complex 3D editor, I am a bit frustrated with my lack of understanding of this one, mostly in regards to the shape names and mechanics of some shapes. I would really appreciate any help or direction you can give, whenever that might be possible.

You guys do a wonderful job! Thank you for all the possibilities you create by opening this editor to us.

#25 Report | Quote[en] 

Daomei
If you enter the SE as a complete newcomer, you are asked to enter a scenery name, which is trivial. After that, you may be getting lost already. Well, if you come to browse the graphic elements (shapes) offered, you may or may not find something useable intuitively. But you may be struck down by the variety of only partially (if at all) usable stuff as well. When starting in the wrong place, for example, in city elements, you may get completely lost. I have not figured out til now how to combine the shapes of the cities' sets into a complete house much less a street or a square.

I build a part of a Tryker city, that was rather easy, but the others are separated into a lot more parts. Tents, stables and towers are also easy to use.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/yubolina/31883458754/

Daomei
To put it more systematically: You learn to open a scenario defining a top-level data structure (scenario, private or public), fine. Below is the hierarchy group, but it remains somewhat unclear why groups do exist at all and how to define and edit the first and subsequent ones and how to combine them (ok, one may imagine, but examples for useful group combinations would help).

I hope this is basically covered in my video. My largest group has 500+ shapes in it. They are useful to separate things you want not to edit accidentally or just like you would sort files into folders, you sort shapes into groups at your preference to keep the overview.

Daomei
And then you have the lowest hierarchy level, shapes, three-dimensional graphic elements being thematically organized. This distinction (shape groups) is more or less self-explanatory/speaking, but often rather less (the naming should be worked on, no criticism intended, and an index of shape groups togetger with some documentation and explanation would help a lot). The shapes proper are not uncomplicated, either. Some shapes are "complete", such as plants, water, certain buildings, many generic shapes. Some shapes do not appear at all if you try to activate them.

Yes, a noticeable amount of shapes is not useful at the moment as they are.
In the beginning I just run around an spammed shapes, to find out what they are and if they work (have a texture).

Daomei
Other shapes, such as mobs, appear as transparent white structures. I do not know if such a mob may be "dyed" (eg White Kitin of the Depths, green or red-and-white Kiro etc.) and how, and whether he/she/ it moves, or even attacks, afterwards. Or whether you can modify the weapons and may wield/store/exchange them. Probably I am doing the twentieth step before the first one with such considerations.

If their own textures are not found, most shapes show a transparent texture with large white arrows on it.
So glowing white or invisible shapes are mostly texture related bugs.
The Scenario Editor part is announced, it’s needed for mobs/npc with ai (moving etc.), as far as I understand.
I don’t know if the weapon shapes will ever be equable, at the moment they are only useable as decoration.

Daomei
But right there is my problem: I do not see how a graphics beginner may start. learn and advance, how to fail, learn, correct. The SE certainly is a powerful tool, but what I am missing is a tutorial for the unexperienced starter (when introducing somebody to C, I am starting by hello world, and not by double indirection of an array of function pointers - everyone would be running away screaming if I did) . From my part this is not a complaint or whining about something not yet existing, rather an attempt of analyzing the problem and attempting a project proposal how to get people interested in this tool avoiding unnecessary frustration and finding a way to familiarize with it. I'm sure the SE is a powerful tool, but the way it is looking so far, I do not know if it is motivating a lot of players. But it would be a pity if it could not.

In the last few weeks I promised some people to make a tutorial, when the crashes are fixed.

Now the crashes are fixed, here you go, my very first Youtube video:
https://youtu.be/1sCuvB0l-HQ

Hope you find it useful and enjoying! :)

#26 Report | Quote[en] 

I made a screenshot gallery and an Excel document (English + German), to have a general overview of working shapes in the categories.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskPw5fm8

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z1uOxRDBOmXIEv86Hpj4clCRb Sk66ZPNtGeCwTiCZ3M/edit?usp=sharing


Tutorial video episode 2 will be about:
- spawn apartments and place/resize decoration in it (easy part)
- creating a building with outside and inside, to walk in with the char (advanced)
- What do you wish for? It’s up to your feedback ;)

Last edited by Yubina (2 years ago)

#27 Report | Quote[fr] 

besides having some way to 'preview' an item before you click on it, (which is easy enough to delete it once you make it appear), It would be awefully nice to have a way to delete an item by right-clicking on it later. There is features to edit, or 'Move, rotate, and scale,' but if there was a delete button also, it would make life so much easier rather than having to find the item in the box of spawned items which may be a lengthy list, plus, you might delete the wrong item there. :(


Also, maybe an 'Undo' button which undos things one at a time?

Last edited by Naema (2 years ago)

#28 Report | Quote[en] 

Naema
besides having some way to 'preview' an item before you click on it, (which is easy enough to delete it once you make it appear), It would be awefully nice to have a way to delete an item by right-clicking on it later. There is features to edit, or 'Move, rotate, and scale,' but if there was a delete button also, it would make life so much easier rather than having to find the item in the box of spawned items which may be a lengthy list, plus, you might delete the wrong item there. :(

Also, maybe an 'Undo' button which undos things one at a time?

+1 for all of your ideas :)

To identify a shape in the scenes list, first save and then modify the collision slightly or move z of the shape with right click menu, the edited shape will be red in the list, instead of beige till the next save.

It would be great if we could mark shapes in some way, at least 2 kinds of marks, one for broken shapes and one for favorite shapes.
It would also be nice, if we could see other users markings (ratings, tags).

How would it be if users could contribute preview images to shapes? All you would need to do is give us the ability. ;)

#29 Report | Quote[fr] 

Quote from Tamareas' post: Forums>Official news>Opening of ARC to the players: {One step closer to "Power to Players"
Thanks to the forthcoming opening of the Scenographic Editor and then the Scenario Editor, both components of the Ryzom Arkitect authoring tool, we are taking another step towards "Power to Players" which, more than ever , remains our motto.}

I seemed to over look this sentence, it says next you will open a 'Scenario Editor' after the Scenographic editor? What is a Scenario Editor and is it related to opening ARC to the players? How does it work and what will the procedure be to actually allow new Scenarios into the game at this point? Please remind us. Or is it only for the Scenes the players create?

Virg had a good idea about a Frippos boss as well as a new NCP marauder boss that drops MA iirc, so i am wondering, if a player has a good idea, how do we get it incorporated into the game? What will the procedure be? We need to make it easier, for when they do make it, how do they get it OK'd and put into the game? Or is the Scenario Editor just for the player made Scenes with the Scenographic Editor? Maybe I am going beyond the scope of this post, Sorry if I am.

Last edited by Naema (2 years ago)

#30 Report | Quote[en] 

As I understand, the Scenario Editor is the advanced (future) state of the Scenographic Editor.
It contains ai, "intelligent" mobs, possibility to create missions and whatever I overlooked. ^^

Will it get the name Pocket Worlds back? PoWo sounded so much better than SE (to be confused with special edition).

A way to rename scenes would be really usefull, the "Magical Forest Scene" (image used by Tamarea) is just named "woods" at the moment, it's supposed be one of my first shared scenes. (Flickr Album)

(Not sure I have time for tutorial episode 2 soon, but it will come, promise!)
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