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#16 [en] 

The dagger system was not labor intensive for the event team, more for the player and even not really that intensive at all...

It was nice !

but yes to few candidate and people who vote.

But all that is motsly because of the lack of imagination and will of player.

Don't wait for the event team to launch event or organise a meeting in the agora the spread your word and asking for people to vote for you ! run all over the city crying your slogan ,....

Well do something ! :p

Event on aniro was what they were because of player imagination and investment.

It's only labor intensive if people don't care or only cry because they don't care about roleplay but just want free stuff and effortless event.

When people do something those who don't care and/or won't be touch by it came insult you or complain about stuff that don't concern them so yes less people want to spend time and effort doing something.

But mainly the issue was, is and will always first be on the player side.
You want to be able to vote again? Shout for it ! make tract and wander in the street distributing them !

(like i have done when i was making my fyros paper on another char :p)

Use your imagination and act in rp ! not jsut complain hrp.
Don"t wait for the other to do something ! make the first step !

And enjoy playing it :)

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Osquallo (3 years ago)

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Osquallo
Les rêveries du yubo flaneur
The musings of the rambling yubo

#17 [en] 

I don´t know if it is a destruction or not. The roleplay is up to everyone and each one should know what wants to play inside the Lore and the actual events on going, this is just a new reality. 

I just left my akenak rank because I am not enjoying this game no longer. And not because of the Event Team, they could have good or bad ideas, but as everyone around. We are not perfect. I don´t like that the players opinion wasn´t taken in to account, but well, who they would ask? me? I was the only akenak around after all... I have made bad choices in this game and now I just feel like I don´t fit nowhere. I am hard to deal with for sure, and I don´t have many friends around. Game is just tedious for me, the only thing that made me come back was this akenak rank. 

I understand that many are complaining about the changes, but, I have spent many weeks alone during the assemblies. I have tried my best to make players come to the assemblies, maybe I did not my best? Ok. But I tried. Now, after all this Atreus thing, I just feel that has no sense I keep making an effort for something I feel is imposed.

And this is my opinion, the new organization is not imposed, is just a desperate movement to keep the Fyros alive. And I don´t feel I am fitting in that new organization. I came from the past one, I should leave others take my place.

I have renounced the Fyros rite and I am now neutral/neutral again. I wish good luck to the Fyros.  

What will the future bring to me? I don´t know, but right now I don´t have the mood for playing. 

I hope you all enjoy for me.

Last edited by Tiximei (3 years ago) | Reason: Fixed language button

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Lerya Rechtuch

#18 [en] 

Lerya

I understand that many are complaining about the changes, but, I have spent many weeks alone during the assemblies. I have tried my best to make players come to the assemblies, maybe I did not my best? Ok. But I tried. Now, after all this Atreus thing, I just feel that has no sense I keep making an effort for something I feel is imposed.

That's interesting. I have not attended many Fyros events, but my experience with the Zorai events has been exactly the opposite. That we have a lot of control over the course of the events, how things happen, what decisions are made, etc.

There have been so many times in which entire event chains happened simply because of one player decision that completely altered the course of the story. Heck, this last event about "The departure of Qin Coi Wu" for example, the main protagonist of this event, a reformed bandit, just happened to be a minor NPC in another event, that players just happened to make the decision of sparing his life instead of killing him, and sent him to Zora prison. That was all on the players.

The only thing to keep in mind is the lore of course. Obviously the ET doesn't have the freedom to accept events and player decisions that would deviate from the lore and the main themes too much. So because of that, we may sometimes get the feeling that the world is too static and nothing really changes in the grander scheme of things. But this has always been the case with any sort of persistent online game. MUSHes, MUDs, MMO's, you name it. Out of all MMO's I've played or heard about it, Ryzom was the one which gave the most freedom to the players to affect the story and change the course of events through RP.

Last edited by Tiximei (3 years ago) | Reason: Fixed language button

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"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."

#19 [en] 

Obviously the ET doesn't have the freedom to accept events and player decisions that would deviate from the lore

Just after merge they have accept some stuff like that from some player to not hurt them too much, the result was just killing the rp and making some invested player leave the game.

But player have to "play the game" a little and accept that they are not the character.

When i has see the uniform issue on fyros, well it's jsute people that don't play theire role and don't want to loose their fashion style in the assembly.

But what other rp player and the event team can do against that ?

That was so much absurd and i know why some fyros roleplayer have juste leave the game.

Same goes for the jungle.

In matis side we have done some player leading event and have made some nice stuff event if it was a little slow but then again some have not accept the idea that they don't play themselve in the real world, and i force us to acept absurd stuff event if they don't have attend to the event itself.

It really really annonying and frustrating to see that.

Since the merge the biggest issue is that, people who don't make the difference between player and character.

The kitin capture is a player made event, tournement was a player made event, SKA is a player made stuff.

And the event team have followed us and support us even mixing theire own event with them.

The only issue was from some player.

If people was more interessted in the fyros politic/event they would not have to do such change.

So know you are aware of it change that state and they would propabily make the vote stuff come back.

The system was initialy done with more akenak in mind.
But if the few akenak are mostly OOC that will lead to only crap stuff.

So i understand the need to select them a little :/

zorai's rp was almost kill by letting people do crap against the lore just because it's fit more theire player's interest.

Last edited by Osquallo (3 years ago)

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Osquallo
Les rêveries du yubo flaneur
The musings of the rambling yubo

#20 [en] 

[quote=Osquallo]

Since the merge the biggest issue is that, people who don't make the difference between player and character.

+1

#21 [en] 

I think the problem with the akenak is that it has been understaffed for a loooong time. There is supposed to be 12 akenak, and less candidates than that makes the election pointless. Unfortunately i never saw that much akenak (i think the most was 6 or 7 in 2013 when dyron+pyr+thesos akenak were here) in a single assembly.

I'm not sure why is that, but it's probably because the fyros lore is relatively closed. The akenak are supposed to be counsel to the sharükos and have almost no power ; and a good fyros is supposed to obey sharükos (there is no such thing as civil disobedience in the desert)

In the end, since most people aren't interested in the akenak, that not much takes place in the desert (or anywhere else) even tho people have tried (Lerya for example tried hard to get people to come to pyr meetings) makes people even less interested (because nothing takes place, so you know even if you join nothing will happen, why bother ?).

Regarding the akenak change, it's more of a desperate move. I don't know exactly how things went since I left, but i assume nothing major changed so it's probably too late anyway

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#22 [en] 

One problem also is that there was little to no politics at all going on. That little stirring-up I did back then, which was intended as both a basis for political conflict as well as for diplomacy unfortunately led to nothing but the removal of Matis ambassadors from the desert. The Fyros, as far as I remember, had no ambassadors in Matia anyway. It's probably just me, but the thought that Fyros hate Matis and vice versa and therefore should not have some sort of diplomatic business is very short-sighted, as such an attitude makes politicians (in this case the Akenak) pretty redundant.

Last edited by Salazar (3 years ago) | Reason: (changing language tag)

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#23 [en] 

I agree to most Icus has written, especially about Lerya's (and the event guide's/celiakos') desperate attempts to activate Fyros players. Whatever went wrong, it is shortsighted to blame it to the event team. And it can only be hoped that Fyros RP will recover in the future. Then and only then the method to appoint the Akenak can be discussed anew. Btw., as I remember, we never had even 6 Akenak, much less 12, on Leanon, we were happy about 12 electors - at least in the period since 2010.

Btw., there still is a Fyros diplomat in Yrkanis, in one of the little round houses near the royal palace. :)

Last edited by Tiximei (3 years ago) | Reason: Fixed language button

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#24 [en] 

Nerwane
Osquallo

Since the merge the biggest issue is that, people who don't make the difference between player and character.

+1


+2

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Zilon (3 years ago)

#25 [en] 

Daomei
Btw., there still is a Fyros diplomat in Yrkanis, in one of the little round houses near the royal palace. :)

Yes, it was too much effort to have him removed over and over again. ;)

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#26 [en] 

On Leanon (german) server there was a active Fyros roleplay community. Fyros player roleplay died after event team acted heavily biased over and over again.

If customers have lost trust in a company's management it takes a long time and a lot of positive communication efforts to regain trust and commitment of people.

I heavily miss positive communication here as Rikutatis described it in Zorai roleplay community management.

Last edited by Tiximei (3 years ago) | Reason: Fixed language button

#27 Multilingual 

Hello and thank to all who contributed to this discussion with matter-of-fact arguments. The situations is sad but it is better to ask for reasons than doing nothing.

Although the picture is speculative because no one knows the real intention of the event team, some arguments seem logic and could serve as a basis of further analysis but others need more detailed explanation.

There are a few things that I wish to add.

I:'The dagger election system is too labor intensive'
Osquallo
The dagger system was not labor intensive for the event team, more for the player and even not really that intensive at all...

It was nice !

I fully agree with Osquallo. The dagger election system should be easy to handle.

II.'The number of Akenak candidates is too low.'
@Osquallo, Daomei, Bitttymacod and others:
Osquallo
but yes to few candidate and people who vote ...

Yes, there are hardly any Fyros roleplayers around. But abandoning the Fyros dagger election system would make things worse. Any election system is not only about organizing the vote of a group of candidates. An election system is about legitimation of power and leadership, regardless how many candidates there are.

This is the really important point about the Fyros dagger election system.
The Fyros dagger election system is crucial for the legitimation of the Fyros Akenak roleplay.

Let me give you an example:
If the event team would change the tryker citizen election system into a matis-like feudal system it would destroy the core of any Tryker governmental roleplay for Tryker citizen players.

Creating Fyros Akenak simply by event team announcement makes Fyros nation roleplay useless.
The Fyros Akenak is now turned from a speaker of desert warriors into an imperial bureaucrat/event team representative.



A guild leader once told me:
'I want guild members who question my orders if I am doing wrong. I don't want mindless killers who sheepishly follow every order. I want people that are able to decide between good and evil, between right and wrong. I want real warriors.'

I think this describes the essence of being a Fyros warrior and doing Fyros roleplay.

Warriors have to do hard choices and they don't give up their individual freedom easily. But warriors can decide to follow a leader and keep discipline for the greater good of their guild/faction/nation. Warriors follow thoses leaders who share their understanding and whom they really respect. This is an act of free will.

This is why acceptance for the Fyros Akenak leadership roleplay cannot be substituted by an bureaucratic act of the event team.

#28 [en] 

Nuzanshi
Fyros player roleplay died after (Leanon) event team acted heavily biased over and over again.

The main Fyros RP died the last time after people like Curtos left - and as far as I know he didn't leave over quarreling with the Event Team. The first exodus of Fyros RP years before, when Damor went away with his lot, is almost prehistoric past. However, Stiara, for example, stayed on through all heavy weather and continued after the Merge.
Nuzanshi
(...) acceptance for the Fyros Akenak leadership roleplay cannot be substituted by an bureaucratic act of the event team.

Honestly, from my observation, and from what I read, little was more bureaucratic than Fyros political RP. I mean - discussing uniforms for the Akenak for months? If they'd do that at the Matis Assembly, I'd say a few spirited words to my fellow nobles. Fortunately, they're rather sensible about the major needs of such a meeting, which might be the main reason our Assemblies are still flourishing (although the bloody translation procedure stretches each meeting like chewing gum).
Nuzanshi
(...) warriors can decide to follow a leader and keep discipline for the greater good of their guild/faction/nation. (...) This is an act of free will. I think this describes the essence of being a Fyros warrior and doing Fyros roleplay.
Icus
(...) a good fyros is supposed to obey sharükos (there is no such thing as civil disobedience in the desert)

Both Nuzanshi as well as Icus are former Akenos, I think. This seems to show in interesting problem, a difference of understanding of what makes a Fyros Akenak (taking for granted that Nuzanshi was not implying that the common Fyros on the streets is different from the voted Fyros representing him or her). The difference in understanding of the Lore in two different players seems to me, on the whole, to be a major problem.

Regarding the responsibility of the ET, which was German on Leanon (obviously), but now I think is French and/or English-American (to my knowledge, there are few - if at all - Germans in the ET left), and their supposed discouragement of political RP, which was not exactly enthusiastic since the merge, I'm unable to comment. But I can't stop to wonder why since I remember there are players who feel mistreated by the ET in every of its incarnations.

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#29 [en] 

Interesting points Nuzanshi, I mostly agree :)
Both Nuzanshi as well as Icus are former Akenos, I think. This seems to show in interesting problem, a difference of understanding of what makes a Fyros Akenak (taking for granted that Nuzanshi was not implying that the common Fyros on the streets is different from the voted Fyros representing him or her). The difference in understanding of the Lore in two different players seems to me, on the whole, to be a major problem.

It's just two differents aspect you can't compare, really.

The sharük is based on two things : the 4 pillars (Justice, Honor, Discipline & Truth), and the sharükos. The pillars are the pillars of the fyros culture : if you respect them, you are worthy of beeing a Fyros. Even if you aren't a Patriot, if you follow the pillars you will be respected by the fyros, because it's their core. On the other hand, you have Patriots : they follow the pillars, and vowed to defend at all cost the sharük. They believe it's the best way to live within the pillars and will do everything to protect it.

The sharükos is what glues all of this together ; he is both the symbol and guardian of the pillars : He makes sure that the pillars are followed, and should always act in the way of the pillars. This is why he's also the head of the sharük, and its guardian : since he is the pillars, it makes sense that his voice is The autority in the sharük, because the sharük goal is to defend the pillars, and that's his job.

This is why you obey sharükos : both because he is the pillars and you respect them, and because he is the personification of the sharük (which you want to protect). You can advice him, and even question him ; Fyros aren't idiots, and they know every homin can make a mistake.

However, the moment you start disobeying sharükos, it means you are either
- rejecting his legitimacy as leader of the sharük and guardian of the pillars, because he isn't doing what he should to protect and follow the pillar (or you don't agree with the way he follows them and think he's wrong, in the end it's the same thing). It means you are no longer a Patriot, basically (because the sharük and sharükos are too much tied, you can't vow allegiance to the first without recognising the second, it's idiotic)
- rejecting the pillars. This means sharükos has no legitimacy to you anymore because you aren't tied by the pillars. This means you are no longer a fyros, basically.


On the other hand, your guild leader is just another fyros. You can respect him, think he's a great guy, obey him, but if he starts acting contrary to the pillars, it's your duty as a fyros to not obey him and respect the pillars, and probably to convince him to stop doing so - maybe even stopping him doing so in more direct ways if you think it would be better.

He has no legitimacy in regards to the pillars, and most likely in regards to the sharük because he's chosen by you (individually), and you don't carry the words of the pillars with you. This is more or less the same for the akenak : they are chosen by the Patriots as a group of Fyros they think respect the pillars (akenak means "the very virtuous" in fyrk) and are generally wise, so they can give good advice to sharükos.

This is why there can be (and there is :-D) heavy criticism of the akenak by patriots : they are, in the end, just regular fyros folks. They generally don't have powers, and when they do it's given, temporarily (sharükos can revoke it at any time he wants), and on a specific subject : let Icus manages the Water Road with the trykers as it's easier for everyone. Ambassadors are a bit more tricky, but in the end they are here only to convey sharükos words to other nations / assembly (but that's theory, we all know how in pratical it isn't really the case).

They aren't quite exactly random fyros tho, and it's was an attack against an akenak during his mission can be viewed as an attack against the sharük : first because they are patriots and the sharük protects its patriots (but that's not specific to them), second because sharükos gave them power to act (over a specific subject), so an attack against them is like an attack against sharükos.


It's this kind of difference between beeing choosen by your peers and beeing choosen by sharükos that makes celiakos and people like the Ardent Master (leader of the Burning Faces) quite special, because their legitimacy is (indirectly) tied to the pillars.


This is why this modification could be problematic, because instead of beeing random fyros folk who happens to be less idiots than their friends, akenak are now special fyros sharükos chosed ; it really makes them different from regular fyros folk. But since no one seems to play Fyros RP anymore, it isn't really a huge deal. It isn't against the fyros lore, the main problem is that it puts some players above other, which wasn't the case before. If it can makes some people interested in the fyros RP, i still think it's worth a shot (even tho i personally prefer the old way)

This was waaayyy longer that i thought it would be, so in short :
Pillars are the core of Fyros life, mindset & culture. sharükos is the embodiment of those pillars, as such his words is law. sharük main goal is to protect the pillars - this is why sharükos is head of sharük. Going against sharük/sharükos = going against either core of our life or core of our civilisation = bad. Going after GL (or another fyros) is OK cause they have no legitimacy in regards to pillars

Last edited by Lopyrech (3 years ago)

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