English French German Spanish Russian
The destruction of the Fyros Akenak roleplay - OOC - Ryzom Community ForumHomeGuest

OOC


uiWebPrevious12uiWebNext

#20 [en] 

[quote=Osquallo]

Since the merge the biggest issue is that, people who don't make the difference between player and character.

+1

#21 [en] 

I think the problem with the akenak is that it has been understaffed for a loooong time. There is supposed to be 12 akenak, and less candidates than that makes the election pointless. Unfortunately i never saw that much akenak (i think the most was 6 or 7 in 2013 when dyron+pyr+thesos akenak were here) in a single assembly.

I'm not sure why is that, but it's probably because the fyros lore is relatively closed. The akenak are supposed to be counsel to the sharükos and have almost no power ; and a good fyros is supposed to obey sharükos (there is no such thing as civil disobedience in the desert)

In the end, since most people aren't interested in the akenak, that not much takes place in the desert (or anywhere else) even tho people have tried (Lerya for example tried hard to get people to come to pyr meetings) makes people even less interested (because nothing takes place, so you know even if you join nothing will happen, why bother ?).

Regarding the akenak change, it's more of a desperate move. I don't know exactly how things went since I left, but i assume nothing major changed so it's probably too late anyway

---

#22 [en] 

One problem also is that there was little to no politics at all going on. That little stirring-up I did back then, which was intended as both a basis for political conflict as well as for diplomacy unfortunately led to nothing but the removal of Matis ambassadors from the desert. The Fyros, as far as I remember, had no ambassadors in Matia anyway. It's probably just me, but the thought that Fyros hate Matis and vice versa and therefore should not have some sort of diplomatic business is very short-sighted, as such an attitude makes politicians (in this case the Akenak) pretty redundant.

Last edited by Salazar (3 years ago) | Reason: (changing language tag)

---

#23 [en] 

I agree to most Icus has written, especially about Lerya's (and the event guide's/celiakos') desperate attempts to activate Fyros players. Whatever went wrong, it is shortsighted to blame it to the event team. And it can only be hoped that Fyros RP will recover in the future. Then and only then the method to appoint the Akenak can be discussed anew. Btw., as I remember, we never had even 6 Akenak, much less 12, on Leanon, we were happy about 12 electors - at least in the period since 2010.

Btw., there still is a Fyros diplomat in Yrkanis, in one of the little round houses near the royal palace. :)

Last edited by Tiximei (3 years ago) | Reason: Fixed language button

---

Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#24 [en] 

Nerwane
Osquallo

Since the merge the biggest issue is that, people who don't make the difference between player and character.

+1


+2

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Zilon (3 years ago)

#25 [en] 

Daomei
Btw., there still is a Fyros diplomat in Yrkanis, in one of the little round houses near the royal palace. :)

Yes, it was too much effort to have him removed over and over again. ;)

---

#26 [en] 

On Leanon (german) server there was a active Fyros roleplay community. Fyros player roleplay died after event team acted heavily biased over and over again.

If customers have lost trust in a company's management it takes a long time and a lot of positive communication efforts to regain trust and commitment of people.

I heavily miss positive communication here as Rikutatis described it in Zorai roleplay community management.

Last edited by Tiximei (3 years ago) | Reason: Fixed language button

#27 Multilingual 

Hello and thank to all who contributed to this discussion with matter-of-fact arguments. The situations is sad but it is better to ask for reasons than doing nothing.

Although the picture is speculative because no one knows the real intention of the event team, some arguments seem logic and could serve as a basis of further analysis but others need more detailed explanation.

There are a few things that I wish to add.

I:'The dagger election system is too labor intensive'
Osquallo
The dagger system was not labor intensive for the event team, more for the player and even not really that intensive at all...

It was nice !

I fully agree with Osquallo. The dagger election system should be easy to handle.

II.'The number of Akenak candidates is too low.'
@Osquallo, Daomei, Bitttymacod and others:
Osquallo
but yes to few candidate and people who vote ...

Yes, there are hardly any Fyros roleplayers around. But abandoning the Fyros dagger election system would make things worse. Any election system is not only about organizing the vote of a group of candidates. An election system is about legitimation of power and leadership, regardless how many candidates there are.

This is the really important point about the Fyros dagger election system.
The Fyros dagger election system is crucial for the legitimation of the Fyros Akenak roleplay.

Let me give you an example:
If the event team would change the tryker citizen election system into a matis-like feudal system it would destroy the core of any Tryker governmental roleplay for Tryker citizen players.

Creating Fyros Akenak simply by event team announcement makes Fyros nation roleplay useless.
The Fyros Akenak is now turned from a speaker of desert warriors into an imperial bureaucrat/event team representative.



A guild leader once told me:
'I want guild members who question my orders if I am doing wrong. I don't want mindless killers who sheepishly follow every order. I want people that are able to decide between good and evil, between right and wrong. I want real warriors.'

I think this describes the essence of being a Fyros warrior and doing Fyros roleplay.

Warriors have to do hard choices and they don't give up their individual freedom easily. But warriors can decide to follow a leader and keep discipline for the greater good of their guild/faction/nation. Warriors follow thoses leaders who share their understanding and whom they really respect. This is an act of free will.

This is why acceptance for the Fyros Akenak leadership roleplay cannot be substituted by an bureaucratic act of the event team.

#28 [en] 

Nuzanshi
Fyros player roleplay died after (Leanon) event team acted heavily biased over and over again.

The main Fyros RP died the last time after people like Curtos left - and as far as I know he didn't leave over quarreling with the Event Team. The first exodus of Fyros RP years before, when Damor went away with his lot, is almost prehistoric past. However, Stiara, for example, stayed on through all heavy weather and continued after the Merge.
Nuzanshi
(...) acceptance for the Fyros Akenak leadership roleplay cannot be substituted by an bureaucratic act of the event team.

Honestly, from my observation, and from what I read, little was more bureaucratic than Fyros political RP. I mean - discussing uniforms for the Akenak for months? If they'd do that at the Matis Assembly, I'd say a few spirited words to my fellow nobles. Fortunately, they're rather sensible about the major needs of such a meeting, which might be the main reason our Assemblies are still flourishing (although the bloody translation procedure stretches each meeting like chewing gum).
Nuzanshi
(...) warriors can decide to follow a leader and keep discipline for the greater good of their guild/faction/nation. (...) This is an act of free will. I think this describes the essence of being a Fyros warrior and doing Fyros roleplay.
Icus
(...) a good fyros is supposed to obey sharükos (there is no such thing as civil disobedience in the desert)

Both Nuzanshi as well as Icus are former Akenos, I think. This seems to show in interesting problem, a difference of understanding of what makes a Fyros Akenak (taking for granted that Nuzanshi was not implying that the common Fyros on the streets is different from the voted Fyros representing him or her). The difference in understanding of the Lore in two different players seems to me, on the whole, to be a major problem.

Regarding the responsibility of the ET, which was German on Leanon (obviously), but now I think is French and/or English-American (to my knowledge, there are few - if at all - Germans in the ET left), and their supposed discouragement of political RP, which was not exactly enthusiastic since the merge, I'm unable to comment. But I can't stop to wonder why since I remember there are players who feel mistreated by the ET in every of its incarnations.

---

#29 [en] 

Interesting points Nuzanshi, I mostly agree :)
Both Nuzanshi as well as Icus are former Akenos, I think. This seems to show in interesting problem, a difference of understanding of what makes a Fyros Akenak (taking for granted that Nuzanshi was not implying that the common Fyros on the streets is different from the voted Fyros representing him or her). The difference in understanding of the Lore in two different players seems to me, on the whole, to be a major problem.

It's just two differents aspect you can't compare, really.

The sharük is based on two things : the 4 pillars (Justice, Honor, Discipline & Truth), and the sharükos. The pillars are the pillars of the fyros culture : if you respect them, you are worthy of beeing a Fyros. Even if you aren't a Patriot, if you follow the pillars you will be respected by the fyros, because it's their core. On the other hand, you have Patriots : they follow the pillars, and vowed to defend at all cost the sharük. They believe it's the best way to live within the pillars and will do everything to protect it.

The sharükos is what glues all of this together ; he is both the symbol and guardian of the pillars : He makes sure that the pillars are followed, and should always act in the way of the pillars. This is why he's also the head of the sharük, and its guardian : since he is the pillars, it makes sense that his voice is The autority in the sharük, because the sharük goal is to defend the pillars, and that's his job.

This is why you obey sharükos : both because he is the pillars and you respect them, and because he is the personification of the sharük (which you want to protect). You can advice him, and even question him ; Fyros aren't idiots, and they know every homin can make a mistake.

However, the moment you start disobeying sharükos, it means you are either
- rejecting his legitimacy as leader of the sharük and guardian of the pillars, because he isn't doing what he should to protect and follow the pillar (or you don't agree with the way he follows them and think he's wrong, in the end it's the same thing). It means you are no longer a Patriot, basically (because the sharük and sharükos are too much tied, you can't vow allegiance to the first without recognising the second, it's idiotic)
- rejecting the pillars. This means sharükos has no legitimacy to you anymore because you aren't tied by the pillars. This means you are no longer a fyros, basically.


On the other hand, your guild leader is just another fyros. You can respect him, think he's a great guy, obey him, but if he starts acting contrary to the pillars, it's your duty as a fyros to not obey him and respect the pillars, and probably to convince him to stop doing so - maybe even stopping him doing so in more direct ways if you think it would be better.

He has no legitimacy in regards to the pillars, and most likely in regards to the sharük because he's chosen by you (individually), and you don't carry the words of the pillars with you. This is more or less the same for the akenak : they are chosen by the Patriots as a group of Fyros they think respect the pillars (akenak means "the very virtuous" in fyrk) and are generally wise, so they can give good advice to sharükos.

This is why there can be (and there is :-D) heavy criticism of the akenak by patriots : they are, in the end, just regular fyros folks. They generally don't have powers, and when they do it's given, temporarily (sharükos can revoke it at any time he wants), and on a specific subject : let Icus manages the Water Road with the trykers as it's easier for everyone. Ambassadors are a bit more tricky, but in the end they are here only to convey sharükos words to other nations / assembly (but that's theory, we all know how in pratical it isn't really the case).

They aren't quite exactly random fyros tho, and it's was an attack against an akenak during his mission can be viewed as an attack against the sharük : first because they are patriots and the sharük protects its patriots (but that's not specific to them), second because sharükos gave them power to act (over a specific subject), so an attack against them is like an attack against sharükos.


It's this kind of difference between beeing choosen by your peers and beeing choosen by sharükos that makes celiakos and people like the Ardent Master (leader of the Burning Faces) quite special, because their legitimacy is (indirectly) tied to the pillars.


This is why this modification could be problematic, because instead of beeing random fyros folk who happens to be less idiots than their friends, akenak are now special fyros sharükos chosed ; it really makes them different from regular fyros folk. But since no one seems to play Fyros RP anymore, it isn't really a huge deal. It isn't against the fyros lore, the main problem is that it puts some players above other, which wasn't the case before. If it can makes some people interested in the fyros RP, i still think it's worth a shot (even tho i personally prefer the old way)

This was waaayyy longer that i thought it would be, so in short :
Pillars are the core of Fyros life, mindset & culture. sharükos is the embodiment of those pillars, as such his words is law. sharük main goal is to protect the pillars - this is why sharükos is head of sharük. Going against sharük/sharükos = going against either core of our life or core of our civilisation = bad. Going after GL (or another fyros) is OK cause they have no legitimacy in regards to pillars

Last edited by Lopyrech (3 years ago)

---

uiWebPrevious12uiWebNext
 
Last visit Wed Jun 19 05:17:19 2019 UTC
P_:

powered by ryzom-api