TECHNICAL SUPPORT / WEB APPs BUGS


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#1 Report | Quote[de] 

Problem: In unregelmäßigen Abständen - mit teilweise extremer Häufigkeit - hängt ryzom komplett.
Anders als bei PW's kann ich nichts machen, weder umherschauen oder Nachrichten tippen. PW's kommen i.d.R. am Ende eines solchen Aussetzers (was nachvollziehbar ist)

System:
AMD 8-Kern 4Ghz (Ryzom benutzt immer nur einen Kern, und den auch auf anderen PC's mit immer fast 100%)
16GB Ram
SSD Raid0
Nvidia Quadro Keplar 2000 (Eigentlich für Videobearbeitung, andere Spiele - eigentlich alles mit DX10/11 - läuft sehr gut)
Win7Pro

Ausschließen kann ich Netzwerkprobleme. Von einem anderen Rechner funktioniert die Verbindung zu Ryzom und zu dem Problemrechner konstant einwandfrei ohne Packet loss und in atemberaubender Geschwindigkeit. Der Ryzom Server liegt dabei mit 200ms im Mittelfeld.
Ebenso kann ich ein generelles Geschwindigkeitsproblem ausschließen.
Was mich fuchst ist, das der Computer einwandfrei läuft, aber nur Ryzom schwierigkeiten macht.
Da die Hardware absolut einwandfrei läuft, und auch andere Software, bin ich mir nicht sicher, wo genau ich einen Fehler suchen sollte. Vielleicht hat jemand dieses Problem schonmal gehabt - und kann mir bei einer Lösung helfen. Gerne besorge ich mehr Systemdetails oder schlage mich mit debuggern herum.

#2 Report | Quote[en] 

Anything to do with this topic?

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#3 Report | Quote[de] 

Close, but not exactly. I'm used to PW's, but the actual problem looks like Ryzom fails to work properly with the hardware - or the other way. Basically everything runs well, but Ryzom hangs often. I'm guessing minor incompatibilities, but I have absolutely no clue where to start searching for the problem.
Hanging means that the whole Ryzom client stops doing anything for up to 10-15 seconds sometimes. No screen refresh, no input possible - it just does nothing, but all other active tasks (if there are any) still run fine. I'd say it does something, but it's hard to figure out anomalies since it always uses close to 100% of only one cpu core anyways.
My first suspect was some "AMD overdrive" technology - it lowers the CPU clock if the power consumption gets over a certain level. If I got that right I can set it to "+20%" which actually means the cpu runs on 100% all the time, but it also tells me that I will be doing this at my own risk, so I kept my fingers off of it.
My second suspect is that I'm using graphic hardware that is designed for CAD stuff rather than games - But it is fast enough to run for example LOTRO and ESO with incredibly high detail level and fps, so why would it be a problem for Ryzom?
For now I'm scared to mess with the system, it is new, runs perfect without crashes or even problems, cost a lot of money and I need it for a big part of my work on a daily basis...
I really don't know where to search, all I can think of right now is to throw in some additional information about the hardware and drivers - which I'll take care of tomorrow.
Maybe I just need to lower or limit GPU settings, downgrade some drivers or anything like that.
Any suggestions are welcome

#4 Report | Quote[en] 

i hate to say it, but it's nothing to do with your hardware, it's a common issue on all platforms on many hardware mixes, it's something to do with the way the client sync's with the server, and possible bad code in the game software it's self (as like you i find no issue with anything other then ryzom)

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents

#5 Report | Quote[de] 

I agree on the possible bad code, but in my case not with the client server sync.
Ryzom occupies about 99% of a core no matter if it's 2 or 4 Ghz, so clearly something is running at full pace which obviously doesn't need to. I'd like it stuck at 80% to have some reserves, but I doubt some skilled programmer can fix that soon - as well as the desired multi thread support.
I have an update about the behaviour tho:
Observing the CPU Graphs I saw that when it hangs the CPU load for that core goes right to the top and stays there, and the kernel times go flat down. Normal business with small moves in the graph comes back when it's working again. Looks similar to other CPU overload problems I've had with other software in the past.
I admit tho that I think Ryzom can cause that with client / server sync problems...
Remarkable is that the last played audio buffers continue playing when everything else about Ryzom stops for a while - so not all of Ryzom is hanging when it hangs.
I have observed similar freezes on all computers I've played Ryzom on, when you go AFK for let's say 10 mins, and then zoom out or look around. As if the graphic card needs to shovel back some data - or something else has forgotten something and has to wait for it to be back. The actual freezes are about the same type of freezes, but they come all the time now on the new PC. The regular PW's are not at all a pain in the ... compared to this.
Desperate as I am I go on with some details about the Hardware:

Win7Pro64 SP1 oem
Kernel: 6.1.7601.18409
DXdiag: DX11 all tests passed
Board: M5A97 R2.0 rev 1.xx
CPU: AMD FX8350 "vishera" 8 core at 4Ghz
Graphic: Quadro K2000 2GB, Driver ver: 9.18.13.4105
Disk: def. fast enough
Mem: def. enough and fast enough
I've had the Keplar monitored in background, it is close to falling asleep with rendering Ryzom.

Gonna check the size of the fans and start playing with that "overdrive" technology tomorrow. Maybe I can deactivate any dynamic clocking - would be awesome if that caused the trouble and I can get rid of it.

#6 Report | Quote[en] 

i also have an amd 8 core black proc, and i have the "cool & quiet" disabled, doesn't change a thing (overdrive is a overclocking software). in fact, my liquid cooled proc is a steady core speed that's far above the needed speeds of ryzom.

i also notice the lag after a long afk time. and if you manually place the process on more then one core, it will reduce the use on that core (i average about 12% of a single core, and about 10% on 2 cores)

Last edited by Talkirc (7 years ago)

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents

#7 Report | Quote[de] 

People often ask me "did you set processor affinity?"
So... how do you do that?
Don't get me wrong, I know how to do that in general, but Ryzom can't be changed. So all I have ever done is ban all other processes from the core Ryzom is using. I'd love to have Ryzom on more than one core. Where's the trick? I hope it's not a hyperthreading thing - I have 8 real cores, not using intel here...

#8 Report | Quote[en] 

On my Win 7 machine I use an application called WinAFC just because I don't want to turn off the security settings. On Linux, there are a couple of posts some time ago about how to set affinity, but it basically boils down to using two different commands to launch the two different instances of the client.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#9 Report | Quote[de] 

I have found some simple command-line parameters I will try first. I am still suspicious if you can even spread Ryzom over multiple cores, but I'll post results here later. Thank you all so far :)

#10 Report | Quote[de] 

Almost as expected the commandline parameters do nothing on ryzom (expl: Ryzom is a single thread application). Other than trying to change it directly in the taskmanager you don't get a notification that it failed or is impossible this way.
Any other suggestions welcome :)

#11 Report | Quote[en] 

Nutsy --

My apologies, I thought you wanted ryzom to run over several cores as two or more executions of the client. (Ryzom always tries to run on CPU 0, even if there is a copy of it already there.) The answer I gave was not relevant to spreading one instance of the client over several cores. I am quite certain that trick can't be done.

Assigning different instances of the client to different (individual) cores can be done and helps a lot in cases where you are "multi-boxing".

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#12 Report | Quote[de] 

And that brings me back to the start. Ryzom runs on an older and much slower pc fine (except the pw's which I am used to). My solution for now is to stack a few more screens, keyboards and mice on the desk and have the old pc available. But still I wonder - since I can exclude hard- and software problems - where exactly Ryzom fails to get along with the fast pc. I still hope for a simple solution like a bugfix, downgrade or anything like that.
I was wondering lately, if there's some kind of virtualisation method, like perhaps a vm running on 4 cores, with linux, acting as if it only had one core. I'm not sure, if that's even possible, but that is the only way I can imagine right now for having more cores involved for the powerhungry Ryzom. (The dropouts still look to me like an overload problem.)
But who knows... Maybe I'm searching at the wrong end....
I've played LOTRO yesterday. All details at max, shadows looked nice, puddles reflected the sky, trees with high detail far away. Used 4/8 cores, had a peak of 13% cpu usage in a crowded place. Was nice. I wish Ryzom would get at least half way there soon. Even if it's not overload problems I have here - maybe someone can figure out the loop which is causing the cpu load, and do something about it. I bet Ryzom would stay around 5% usage on one core, saving power, preventing noise, making laptop batteries live longer...
My Programming skills got stuck on Basic, ASM, tPascal and Lazarus about 15 years ago, so I can not really contribute anything. But I'm curious how hard it is to implement a second thread beside killing the loop. I can imagine having network and inputs one one side, and the rest of the game on the other. Nudge me, if I start being silly.
Any suggestions still very welcome :)

#13 Report | Quote[en] 

Nutsy,

Not sure how much help this will be, I had a simular problem with a couple of my computers. I don't run windows so it may be different, but turning down the number of tracks played in the audio settings reduced the problem for me to a point I can live with (occasional Hag ups in very crouded cities). Dropping the number of tracks to 16 my cpu use seemes to stay more around 70-90% instead off running at close to 100% the whole time

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Fateciy
Gaurdian of the Kingdom
Guild Leader of Spears of Eora

#14 Report | Quote[de] 

Good one, but I've already tried everything I could do in the game settings - including reducing audio channels, minimal graphic settings and so on.
Sometimes I think it is weird. I have a PC capable of giving me a good workflow on editing videos and special effects in 1080p, uncompressed streams with a high framerate, but it has problems with ryzom :/
I could probably still blame the Keplar but I'd like that confirmed. Anyone else with a Quadro K2000 playing Ryzom here?
Beside that, the fact that Ryzom tries to fry a cpu core independent from it's clock speed is a sign of bad programming. I used looped requests all the time before I found out how to use interrupts. I don't know how stuff works with the GDT nowadays, but maybe a timer with a few miliseconds could call that ryzom routine and stop it from running at full pace.
I love Ryzom and I'd like it to be playable, so...
Still any suggestions welcome :)

#15 Report | Quote[en] 

google search "bill2's processor manager" and download and install (windows app for assigning cores) if you have trouble from there, send me an ingame tell or ingame mail, if you can listen via voice chat (teamspeak) i can explain it very quickly and easy. work's great at making affinity settings a snap (set it and forget it style app)

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents
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