#31 Report | Quote[en] 

"An MMO can't create completely dynamic gameplay elements, because it has to factor in the hundreds or housands of other players who will be around...."

I personally believe that MMO's SHOULD try to recreate a single-player RPG experience which are the height immersion in gaming. The dynamic nature of those games are what people are looking to encounter when they team up with their friends in a MMORPG. So I agree with Haniel.

Why is GTA 5 online so HUGELY popular? because of that fact. Current technology is the limiting factor for a fully dynamic world with the NPC's at the heart of it because it takes a level upkeep and the A.I. integrated in most MMO's don't allow for that level. Storybricks was supposedly capable of that but Everquest Next got shutdown (Screw daybreak games!)


#32 Report | Quote[en] 

Well, I guess it's a matter of personal preference. For me, I'd rather MMO's create the ultimate multi-player RPG experience than try to recreate a single player immersion.

I mean, let's take as an example TES and Fallout, which are considered to have the most dynamic open worlds of any single player RPG. What elements make TES worlds so dynamic?

1) You can attack anyone, anytime. Doesn't matter if it's a merchant or a quest giver. Chances are, if it's alive, you can kill it. And they won't be coming back after the fact. Doing this in an MMO is tricky at best, if not downright impossible. How can you kill the blacksmith of the Zorai city if hundreds of other players need to buy their armor from him? How can you kill the welcomer quest giver if all the new players arriving need to take their missions from him? If an MMO allowed you to kill all NPCs anytime you wanted, they'd need to make damn sure those NPCs aren't really needed for the progression of other players. Which means they'd already be redundant anyway.

2) If you clear an area or dungeon of mobs, that's it. You're done. The mobs won't be respawning there anytime in the near future, sometimes never again. Same with bosses. Again, how can you do that in an MMO? Other players need to grind on those mobs, and kill those bosses for loot. The closest you could do in an MMO is if you clear an area of mobs, then maye that spawn of mobs shifts slightly to some other area. Which is fine I suppose, and dynamic enough, but only really useful if you have a purpose for that cleared area, such as player housing.

3) You can complete quests in multiple different ways and the results of your choices have a permanent impact on the world. Did you choose the spare the evil guy or kill him? If you killed him, the village is free, if you didn't he remains the tyrant there. Or whatever. Can't properly do that in an MMO because thousands of other players wil be going through the same quest and choosing different outcomes. ESO attempted to address that with their instanced megaserver technology, basically all the players who choose "outcome X" will go to "instance X" when they're in that village area. Clever tech, but it creates so many other problems (such as not being able to see or interact with your friends and guildies in that area if they chose different outcomes) that it's a bandaid solution at best.

I mean, I could keep giving more examples but I'll stop here. I hope I could get the idea across. GTA online only has 16 players per world for example. Logistics and game objectives are very different from a traditional MMO.

That's why I think the focus on NPCs and PVE in MMO's can only go so far in creating truly free dynamic worlds. I'd rather see the focus shift to player interactions and player-built infra-structure. Give players the world and the tools to build and destroy on it and let them do the rest. Again, just my personal preference.

And yea Everquest Next was one of those games that never saw the light of the day I was talking about =P
I read about the emergent AI system they had, sure. But my point is why spend so much money and resources on an extremely complicated system for AI NPCs that is capable of simulating real choices and needs when you already have thousands of players on that server with their own real choices and needs? Spend that money and resources on player building tools instead and put the focus where it should be: the players.


"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."

#33 Report | Quote[en] 

I consider it strange to call a single player game "dynamic". In fact, those are programs which are, though complex, ultimately deterministic turing machines. And it is not by chance that since 2003 there have been 9 or so GTA editions but only a single Ryzom, Eve etc.

Interactions between real persons, even in game setting, are not deterministic (at least this is widely disputed). So all those interactions are making the dynamic of the game. They are shaping the lore, the storyline, and influence the development of game content.

Btw. I have problems to take people serious who claim to have been "blasted" by Bittty. This sounds like being smashed by a cushion. Those people at least never had a discussion with me.

The dynamic in the game is in the storyline. Granted that was badly but inevitably hurt by the fusion, but the river of time solution at least allowed to bring together what had developped differently and has been forced to the unique outcome of the second swarming.

Hopefully, the work on Ryzom Forge will speed up game content development. It will be shaped by the actions and interactions of the players. Under that respect, this game is more dynamic than most.


Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#34 Report | Quote[en] 


I don't care if you have a problem with me concerning what occurred between me and bitty or not. I told him about his response and that didn't appreciate.
Last visit Wednesday, 22 May 15:33:57 UTC

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