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#16 [en] 

Talk, as MJ already described, at 50 fame all civs you are pro-civ, even if you are un-aligned.

The original basis of pvp points was that the faction paid them to you, no? So the fame score seems to be a way to preserve that concept without having seperate pvp point totals (by faction). So you can pvp anyone you want but there would need to be a pro or anti faction willing to pay you...

And to relate it back to Casy's original post, people who have very different backgrounds could still end up with no points because of the cancelling effect of shared fames. I agree that effect should be reduced/eliminated by changing the calculations or fame thresholds...

#17 [en] 

I'd suggest complexity keeps the *right* people in, while keeping the *wrong* people out. Half the reason why Eve hasn't been dumbed down after all these years, but keeps a steep learning curve. Throwing out things just because they're too complex would drive away exactly the veteran crowd and bring in the 13yolds.

Anyway, to stop digressing and being contrary :)  I see no reason why killing someone of the same faction wouldn't earn you some baseline score. However, I do maintain that fames should play a role in multiplying said score, if anything it adds a roleplay taste to the whole thing. Would be nice to see what fames a person has though, I think there used to be icons to show that.

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#18 [en] 

PvP points used to be earned by killing anyone of any faction. I can only see 2 reasons why this would have changed:
1) For RP reasons
2) To prevent friends killing each other and farming PvP points.

For RP reasons well, not everyone in the game RPs and PvP points aren't given to you by your faction, there are different points for that (although rewards are faction based). In terms of preventing farming PvP points can the game log info for devs such as who earns PvP points and what time they do? If so then if then they can easily spot 2 people farming PvP points and if they are online at the time they can go stalk them?

If these 2 reasons can be managed then maybe the devs can change PvP Points back to the old system? That worked quite well and changed depending on players levels, numbers of players and level of kill skill used (if I remember correctly).

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NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#19 [en] 

I still don't see how marauders are disadvantaged. If a kami kills a marauder he will get X amount of points. If the same marauder returns the favor and kills the kami he would surely get X amount of points also? Isn't this what the matching of fames and giving a score will produce?

I would support the idea of the devs changing it back to the old system as I assume this would be minimal effort but creating a new system I believe is a waste of time when issues like what are you actually going to spend PvP points on are still problematic. A shield that can be bettered by a normal crafted shield, and a skirt which does have very nice stats but is only 1 piece and quite expensive.

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High Officer of Shuriiken
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A glimpse into Virg's life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#20 [en] 

Virg, i explained it to you on the last page. You apologized. If your vision is obstructed again now i got to reject your apology and cannot help with your understanding anymore. Have a nice day.

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Casy * Foreign Secretary * Alliance of Honor
Intensive Care Bear

#21 [en] 

Casy (atys)
You fight karas and marauder -> +1 in average, I fight karas and kamis -> 0 in average, just think a lil before posting.

Wow thanks for such a sharp response to an honest question. Actually I didn't understand it last time and I still don't. I didn't ask further because you didn't respond well to my teasing and that is the reason I apologized.

Don't worry about explaining it obviously you still have a grudge against me because I didn't agree with you crying about a kami using eggs. Totally my fault.

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________________________

High Officer of Shuriiken
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Facebook
Shuriiken's Page
A glimpse into Virg's life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#22 [en] 

You're wrong about the reason :)

Anyways... i'll explain again.

So, what are the factions of pvp fights on atys and what are the constellations of fights arising from that?

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Casy * Foreign Secretary * Alliance of Honor
Intensive Care Bear

#23 [en] 

Faction: Neutral, Kami, Kara, Marauder
Civ: Neutral, Fyros, Tryker, Zorai, Marauder

Only combination of faction and civ that has to be together is of course marauder.

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________________________

High Officer of Shuriiken
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A glimpse into Virg's life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#24 [en] 

Okay. to limit the number of combination i'd remove neutrals (they cannot yield any points). Theists/Hominists in PvP are rare... well I knew 1.

The faction combinations will then be:
- kami vs marauder
- kami vs kara
- kara vs marauder

you can do the same for civs too or include neutrals.

now we add the pvp points multipliers to the combinations:

- kami vs marauder 0
- kami vs kara 2
- kara vs marauder 0

now you sum it up per faction.

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Casy * Foreign Secretary * Alliance of Honor
Intensive Care Bear

#25 [en] 

Isn't this a worst case scenario for marauders but no one else? Not many kami and karas I know have negative civ fame only positive (either 1, 2 or 3).

This means generally kami vs kara = disagree on kami and kara fame = +2

kami vs marauder = disagree on kami, agree on kara, disagree on 1, 2 or 3 civ fames = +1, +2, +3

kara vs marauder = disagree on kara, agree on kami, disagree on 1, 2 or 3 civ fames = +1, +2, +3

Also to add into the mix are the neutrals who do PVP I assume (would need ingfarah to tell us) will have positive fames so marauders will benefit more from killing them.

Last edited by Virg (6 years ago)

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________________________

High Officer of Shuriiken
________________________


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Shuriiken's Page
A glimpse into Virg's life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#26 [en] 

2 or 3 positive civ fames with no negative are very very rare in pvp. Actually most adversaries in pvp got a x0 or x1 factor for me. You can extend the list for more fame types and maybe ask the people who actually do pvp about their fame setup. I heard some pvp kamis say they lowered matis and tryker to -25... to get more points off karavan. and that's what lore and tradition want you to do.

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Casy * Foreign Secretary * Alliance of Honor
Intensive Care Bear

#27 [en] 

As a lot more marauders pvp than karas it would make sense to adjust fames accordingly to get more points off marauders. Another reason why people would have positive fame is through doing rites, there is no benefit to lowering civ fames unless for RP reasons.

The point I am making is that it is a flexible system and you are only showing off the worst case for marauders. Marauders don't have the flexibility in choosing their civ fames because they hate them all. What they do have an advantage in is people tailoring their civs to get more points off them because they are the largest body of tagged people.

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________________________

High Officer of Shuriiken
________________________


Facebook
Shuriiken's Page
A glimpse into Virg's life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#28 [en] 

But that's just not how it is in ingame reality, sadly.

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Casy * Foreign Secretary * Alliance of Honor
Intensive Care Bear

#29 [en] 

I hope that there is now agreement, that

- the Marauders are the faction most PvP oriented
- the existing system is holding unreasonable disadvantages for them

I fail to see why anybody interested in PvP should suffer disadvantages compared to other PvPers with same skill and combat chance, or that it makes sense to demotivate any of them.

I think that Casy's proposal would be helpful at least to remove the worst imbalance. That could be a starting point to think over and brush up the whole system, including rewards.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#30 [en] 

The existing system is far from disadvantaging them. Its a system which varies from player to player and I all the people I know all have high civ fames (which marauders get more points for) and no negative civ fames (apart from rollocks I believe).

Casy has put forward the worst case scenario and as such I shall do the same for kami and kara:

Kami are kara both disagree 2 times with faction fames giving a +2. If players are unaligned and have high civ fames in all that creates a -4, giving a total of -2 (no points gained). These players fighting marauders get a total of +3 (with the cap at +3). Marauders have by far the advantage in this scenario. It isn't hard to put forward a worst case scenario and say "oh look at us we are disadvantaged".

Looking at my previous calculations of what I consider a normal scenario:
kami vs kara: +2
kami vs marauder: +1-3
kara vs marauder: +1-3
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Like I said before I would have no issues with the devs changing it back to the previous system. But I would consider it a waste of time making a new one up for a problem that isn't really a problem.

---


________________________

High Officer of Shuriiken
________________________


Facebook
Shuriiken's Page
A glimpse into Virg's life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)
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