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For those not in the know, fame effects the prices you get from NPCs, the difference in prices between 100 fame and -30 fame is about 30%.

This affects all prices except those of apts and GHs, those of TPs (as they're from the kara/kami), and those of outpost declarations.

So I propose to make it effect OP declaration prices as well. Fyros fame for desert OPs, Tryker fame for lakeland OPs, etc. It's not a real big difference but it makes racial fame a little bit more useful again, as it's still lacking in uses currently.

Obviously it would also give Fyros guilds a slight advantage for declaring on OPs in Fyros lands, and likewise for other races. I think this is only appropriate and not really a gamebreaker since it's only a 10%-15% price difference.

I would even suggest a small bonus for Kami/Kara in respective lands...and guild civ alignment. This makes sense as your more likely to get a "good deal" from NPCs who share similarities with you.

(ie...a Kami follower will more likely offer more to a fellow Kami than someone who he/she is at war with, likewise with civs.)

I believe the TRUE meaning of an OUTPOST is that it is suppose to be OUTSIDE fo your land. Why bother accessing your GH's items from the land that you have your GH in as well? Makes more sense for the Outpost to be in Land not your own, so you have access to your stuff in foreign lands. Sort of like a little embassy of your Guild in other lands.

Like when you have recruited someone in Another land if you have an Outpost there you can just tell the person to go and Visit the OP and see what items he/she likes and you go and get it for him/her.

Speaking as a member of a guild that has seen its entire membership return to the game within the past few months, we are not necessarily loaded with dapper compared to some other guilds. That being the case, I'm comfortable with the cost of outpost declarations. Currency has little value in this game once you pass a certain point, but declarations remain a very useful dapper-sink. I'd even go so far as to increase the costs of squads.

However, I do like the idea that civ-aligned guilds get a bonus in some way (based on the guild fame, not individual fame). Our guild is civ neutral, so we shouldn't receive the same bonus that a Zorai-aligned guild would, but there should also be some sort of penalty they receive that we also wouldn't suffer.

@Loryen:
That's already built into civ fame, no? A Fyros-aligned guild is likely to have Zoraï as their second-highest fame, etc.

@Amnesia:
I agree, actually, which is why I wouldn't want an actual battle advantage. But it still makes sense that launching a campaign to a faraway foreign land costs you more resources than doing it in your own homeland.

@Erizon:
This particular proposal would give the Zoraï guild a lower price for declaring in Zoraï lands, but a matching price increase for declaring in Tryker lands. A civ neutral guild would simply have average prices everywhere.

I am not sure what you mean Marelli. Sorry if I was not clear, I was just trying to say...in your example above, that your Zorai guild, if Kami, would geta little decrease in price for declaring on any OP in Desert or Jungle, and a price increase in Lakelands and Forest. And vice versa for a Karavan guild.

The lands don't "belong" to Kami or Kara. Truth be told, each party claims everything.

The flip side is that particular lands DO belong to each of the civs, or to no one (roots), so this sort of thing would work based on civs but not faction.


And I'm still torn between keeping the dapper sink in place and giving perks to civ-aligned guilds. Although, the ability to participate in gov't proceedings is a big win for civ-aligned guilds, unlike civ-neutral guilds, so there is already that.

You realise this would only make it *more* of a dapper sink? The current price would become the price you get at 100 fame, having any less fame would increase the prize. ;)
(By up to 30% for -30 fame.)Pfft, if that is such a big win, how come almost nobody does it? :P

I think there are many who are interested...but those would be the RPers, the people who are interested int he lore, or even those interested in the general wellbeing of the community...and those, in my observation, tend to stay "neutral" (for any number of reasons, and there are definitely exceptions, like the gurrent participants).

Want an active government, allow us to set up a hominist outpost with the goals of standing in direct oposition to the upcoming marauders and the peaceful search for lore.

Ooh, I call cheater! You didn't mention that part initially =)
As long as we're not paying less than we are now, I'm fine with it =)


And really, if you want more people participating in player gov't, allow hominist guilds, and allow them to accept civ-aligned players. To me, guild membership is much more important than civ gov't roles, no matter how interested I might be in civ gov't stuff.

It should however be GUILD fame, not the fame level of any individual player.
So even if the declaring player has 100 fame, if the guild only has 35 or so the price would be determined by that number.

Also, it should only affect the price the defender pays, the attacker should always pay the same (or in fact should pay more when attacking outside their homelands, as they'd have to effectively bribe npcs alligned with the target civilisation more to switch them).

IOW the system should be (if implemented) be the exact opposite of what you seem to propose, make defense cheaper and offense more expensive :)

No, I was talking about the cost of declaring, not the cost of hiring guards.

I didn't even think of the cost of guards... that *could* also be made dependant on fame, indeed, but let's keep that discussion until after they've made the declaration costs dependant on fame.

no, the two are directly related.
Else you'd have a rich Fyro guild being able to declare almost for free on a poor Matis guild and the latter would have to pay full price (for example).

Like usual for the most part I have no idea what you are talking about lala...why would a rich Fyros guild get to declare for free?

I think what Marelli was suggesting would result in any Fyros guild (yes, based on guild fame...I did not see anyone suggest otherwise) having a cheaper declaration in Fyros lands than in others...with your desire for "realism" I don't see how you cannot support this. Yes, this would also suggest Matis guilds would have a cheaper time attacking in Matis lands, so I am not sure what evil you think anyone is inflicting upon the poor Matis.

However, you did mention an idea I did understand and agree with...the cost of defense should be tied to fame as well. In both cases the "rational for realism" stems from the cost of supply lines and patriotic mercenaries for waging war. A Fyros guild attacking a Matis guild in Matis lands would have to pay more to "ship their supplies", and the Matis guild would pay less because it would be easier to find supportive Matis guards. Likewise, a Fyros guild attacking a Matis in Tryker lands would get benefits based upon both of their respective Tryker fame. A Fyros guild with high Tryker fame would be able to buy supplies in Tryker lands, a Fyros guild with negative Tryker fame would have to ship supplies from Fyros lands. Likewise, a Matis guild defending in Tryker lands with a high Tryker fame would have an easier time finding support among the local polis than one with a negative Tryker fame.