Remove Neutral as an option for OP battles - ИДЕЯ ДЛЯ РИЗОМА

#1 Добавлено Loryen 1 десятилетие назад [en]

I would like to see this. As the title says. Homin who are not fighting have no business being at an OP battle...if they "claim" to be neutral, tag either and stay out of the way.

Personally I think using homin declared neutral as FOs (Forward Observer) and using them to assist targeting is worse than aggro dragging, a gross misuse of game mechanics. If your aiding the enemy, I should be able to kill you. At least if you claim my side and are working for the other, you must avoid "friendly fire".

There is nothing RP about it...there is nothing realistic about it...there is nothing honorable about staying blue in a battle. If you don't want to declare, sit on the sidelines on the outside of the OP.

Last edited by Loryen (1 десятилетие назад) | Причина: To clarify (based on discussion below): My request is to remove "Neutral" as an option during the attack and defense phases of an OP battle.

#2 Добавлено Meagon 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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-1
Some people like to jsut come wathc. Just because some people abuse this does not mean that you should take it away from everybody. People want to watch and see how it plays out. They don't want the risk of dying while they watch the action from a safe distance. It is possible that a stray nuke from a spacebar target or a bomb or a luncher could take them down. In some cases the palyers are low level and may be one shot killed. This is a terrible idea imo. Find some other way to avoid the abuse without punishing the innocent that just want to watch.

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Meagy :)
Spirit of Atys
High Officer of Spiritus Artificis
Never argue with an idiot; they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

#3 Добавлено Amnesia(arispotle) 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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I kinda agree with both point of views. I think the best would be not to be able to assist on a neutral or opposit character.

But for now I would go with Must tag.

+1

BTW in real life if you are sitting on the side of a battle a stray bullet can kill you too...
So if i have to choose between the 2 options i choose #1

#4 Добавлено Loryen 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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Like what Meagon? Offer a solution, not a naysay. If you want to watch, or wait to see who will win so you can join that side, sit on the sidelines. If you are so low of a level you will be one-shotted, stay out of the battle...or contribute what heals you can and die honorably. If you dont want to participate in PvP because of some imagined sense of neutrality, don't.

Last edited by Loryen (1 десятилетие назад)

#5 Добавлено Khandoma 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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some thing needs to be done i can cope with the scouting and even the agroo dragging but soacking up my heals
is some thing i am passionate about if you must watch stay away from the battle do not aggro drag even if you are spotted by a mob run away from the action not to it.And stay away from the heal pods plz

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#6 Добавлено Aniya(arispotle) 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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The biggest problem with completely removing the option to be neutral is that there are legitimate reasons to be in the op area during the war without being involved in it, for instance digging or training nearby. There needs to be a way to permit this during the war, and ideally during the actual battles, as otherwise some players will be forced to either pvp or avoid useful areas. (There was an op battle recently that I literally ran across because the selection window popped up during my normal activities.)

Also, there needs to be a default option - otherwise players could just move the selection window to one side and remain effectively "neutral" anyway.

#7 Добавлено Loryen 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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By all means, if you feel the solution is not acceptable, offer another, better one. I have yet to hear why anyones need to remain neutral should trump a preplanned PvP event which takes place for a short amount of time, in a small PvP region which is easy to avoid.

Last edited by Loryen (1 десятилетие назад)

#8 Добавлено Jayce 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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eh, the scouting thing is a bit of a non-issue for me. However I agree target assists and heal soaking sucks.

My solution would be adding some if-then logic similar to this:

If I'm PvP flagged, then I can only assist others who are PvP flagged.

If I'm PvP flagged, then my heals only affect those who are also PvP flagged. (perhaps with an optional toggle between flagged and non flagged)

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Noble Jayce
Reaper Leader

#9 Добавлено Aniya(arispotle) 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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Considering the objections I raised (also note that it's not all that small an area, nor that short a time frame, and that hostilities are open from the moment of declaration as far as I know), I'd suggest simply plugging the holes that are permitting abuse: Remove the ability to "assist" a neutral player as an involved player. Let people know that they're soaking up heals - this is something that more than likely isn't intentional. (I really doubt that anyone can make more of a difference by soaking up the opposing side's heals than by contributing whatever healing they can to their own side.) Admittedly, I don't have a good solution to aggro dragging on an op battle, but that's not really much different from aggro dragging in general.

Edit: I like Jayce's suggestion regarding the heal soaking problem.

Last edited by Aniya(arispotle) (1 десятилетие назад)

#10 Добавлено Aniya(arispotle) 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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As an alternate suggestion, perhaps it might be appropriate to treat "neutral" differently during the attack and defense phases (not the entire war). Permit "neutral" characters to be specifically targetted and attacked during these phases, while having them not be impacted any more by AoE than they are currently, and not counting as hostile by default. Then the teams present at the OP could deal with pseudo-neutrals who are actually involved in the battle.

#11 Добавлено Loryen 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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Thank you for your offered solution Jayce, and I agree it would be better than what we have now.

Just to clarify, Aniya had a really good point that I had failed to consider, the entire two plus days that the OP is declared upon, it is PvP enabled. My concern is only relevant during attack and defense phases and thus, I must modify my "request" to:

Remove Neutral as an option for OP battles during the attack and defense phases.

Edit: to respond to your above post, My initial solution was to make neutrals attackable by both sides...would actually be the best solution...but I thought it would be considered too extreme.

Last edited by Loryen (1 десятилетие назад)

#12 Добавлено Aniya(arispotle) 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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Loryen

Remove Neutral as an option for OP battles during the attack and defense phases.

I would agree with this if there is a default, as a way to remove the "I'm just ignoring the dialog" form of neutrality.

#13 Добавлено Meagon 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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If you make nuetrals attackable then they can't even be considered nuetrals they are just enemies to all. You can still target them accidentally by space bar and kill them. Which spacebar is often used for targetting and somebody may not realize that they are not involved and just watching.

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Meagy :)
Spirit of Atys
High Officer of Spiritus Artificis
Never argue with an idiot; they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

#14 Добавлено Aniya(arispotle) 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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Meagon

If you make nuetrals attackable then they can't even be considered nuetrals they are just enemies to all. You can still target them accidentally by space bar and kill them. Which spacebar is often used for targetting and somebody may not realize that they are not involved and just watching.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough with this - I meant that things like "/tar pseudoneutral" and clicking on them would select them as targets, but things like spacebar would not.

#15 Добавлено Loryen 1 десятилетие назад [en]

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Hence Meagon...my argument that Neutrals have no place being in a warzone during a war. I would hate for them to get "killed".

ИДЕЯ ДЛЯ РИЗОМА

Remove Neutral Option from OP Battles