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It is very much the subject. You didn't call it opportunistic, you called it competitive. During that discussion you also brought up in a supporting fashion aggro dragging and other "activities" in the context of "competition" that resulted in the conversation turning sour. Here, we don't call that competition, we call that griefing.

By and large, we are a bunch of individual people who have come together into a community and who value the close-knit relationships we have formed over the years. We typically have a warm, welcoming, and friendly environment specifically because we actively try to keep it warm, welcoming, and friendly.

When there is misunderstanding, we will generally try to explain the difference to clear up the misunderstanding. However, when there are attempts to suggest or support griefing, or if discussion gives appearance of that, you'll find that we are firm in our resolution that such activity is not welcomed or acceptable here.


Now, for a little bit that is slightly off-topic but essential nonetheless, perhaps especially so for newer players coming from other games that may be a little more "cut-throat" than Ryzom:

As one of the first people to mention other games during that discussion, what I was saying may have been drowned out in the noise. I said that if the activities you described, which we define to be griefing in this game, are activities you enjoy, Ryzom is not the game for you. I then recommended another sandbox game that DOES support those activities, and even has a segment of the forums devoted to encouraging that type of activity.

If what you want is what you were describing, you will find it there and not here, and you will not be happy if you stay here. You really would find your gaming experience much more enjoyable there. I say that in a helpful manner, because while we are always happy to have more players, you shouldn't play a game if you aren't going to enjoy it.

If, however, you are willing to modify your expectations of "competition" to match what IS acceptable here, then you'll find the entire community welcoming you with open arms, and you may find yourself falling in love with this "carebear" community.

You are right Erizon, all this thread is inspired by evil to lure torbaks upon little girls...

Anyone else supports Erizon? I would like to know.

I hope you realize that Erizon was not asking you to leave...he was simply stating that the type of play you seem to be asking the community to approval is institutionalized in some other games, and...if this is what you are looking for...

About the argument Erizon made, I would have to agree as well. But, we are both in a single guild (drawn together due to our enjoyment of a similar type of play) and we are not the voice of the community. Also, asking hypotheticals in forums could get a different response than actual actions on Atys. Since I doubt you will be able to find a team who will help you kill-steal, I do not think you have to worry about it. Play how you wish.

You seem level headed and polite, I am sure you will be a positive addition to our community. I for one, welcome you.

I agree with Erizon. If a team comes in and gets the boss while the first team is fighting the underlings I see that not as competitive but as cowardly.

If I came across a team fighting a boss I would jump in doing what I can regardless of any chance for reward. One day they might see me in distress and help me. For me that is the essence of the game, but to each their own.

I do like some of the competitive suggestions and hope to see some soon.

Cheers,

Keyif

Really, this is the same question as is generally raised regarding PvP, probably because PvP is the most common form of competition between players, and is the only one which can be unilaterally initiated (you can't go up to a random homin and make them race you if they don't want to). Ryzom is a sandbox game, and part of that is that pretty much everything you can do is consensual - that includes competition. In some circumstances, consent is pretty obviously already given... if you go to an OP battle, or sign up for a mektoub race, or turn up to a supernode carrying twenty tonnes of weapons and armour, then you're obviously up for a little competition.

The problem with kill stealing and dragging, among a few other things, is that they're generally done to people who are just trying to play and have fun, and don't want someone else interfering. That ruins everyone's fun, and ruining everyone's fun ruins the community - we are, as has been said, a small and tight-knit community, and we don't like drama and aggravation because it tends to lead to people, who are always someone's close friend or loyal guildie, no longer wishing to play.
Of course, if the "victim" IS up for it, then it's not griefing - Ripset tries to drag on me quite frequently, and I don't really consider it griefing, because he knows I don't mind it and, in any case, he's a n00b and anything that could kill me would kill him before he got it to me. ;) Rather than taking polls, though, I'd suggest you get to know individuals, and work out what their boundaries are individually.

My argument about the origin of conflict had a flaw: Ryzom population is even more scarce than resources right now, so the need for real competence and (becuase of that) real collaboration is void. It's more like a social enviroment where most "conflict" comes from uni chat and personal differences (see this thread for instance).

Imagine a population 10 times the current one, where that new 90% have their own ideas. Some would think according to the dominant culture inherited from years of carebearing, some would decide to be more competitive despite of those "rules", and finally some others will try and ask for more hardcore style.

That number could be easily achived by a good system like Ryzom. So... what is stopping new players?

By the way I have never lured aggro upon others.

Wrong xD

I tried to lure some upon the matis king on the way to the wedding site because it was boring like heaven. But! I was always there to heal and support the ones fighting them.

The king is still alive :S

Until we decide not to pay the kidnappers their ransom, anyways.

Maybe it's just me being cranky, but I'm reading your last few posts as if you feel the community is the main reason for the low population. If you're not, apologies for the misunderstanding. If you are, sorry, but that's a bit simplistic. I'm not going to lie, the community has been the reason for some people leaving the game, and not all of them deserved, but the commuity is also the reason for some new people staying longer than initially planned. Problem of the low population is multi-faceted, and something that would need its own thread to discuss, but community isn't high on the list of reasons.

As for competition, there's a lot less here than in some other games, that is undeniable. We are more co-operative than competitive. You say we're a carebear game, well I personally wear that phrase with pride. After dealing with the dregs and muppets in my real life, the last thing I want to do is to log on and see more examples of why the human population is going down the toilet. (bleh, more to come)

But that's just me. On the other hand, I had a dear friend who, if you were to aggro-drag on him, he would see it as a challenge, and should he survive, he would never let you live down the fact that you were too n00b to aggro-drag properly, and proceed to give you practical tuitions...lots of practical tuitions. There is competition here, but the game was not built for competition, it is not ingrained. It's there, it can be put together, but you will have to find willing partners, like my old friend.

Huek, I think you can get the competitive buzz you want, you just need to find the right clique of ppl to enjoy it with, but bear in mind, not everybody is of your mindset, and while you rightly reserve the right for competition, try not to deny others the right of more co-operation. Sounds cheesy I know, but that's the problem you get with a game like Ryzom, lots of mouths to feed and egoes to manage :D

I would like to put an end to all these political posts since they are damaging the goal of the thread, which is creating a list of the supported and allowed types of competition (along with the poll).

Please post more information about the different activities or ask me to make changes if you see fit.

Thank you.

(I apoligize for helping it happen)

Please remove item #4 under the "For Profit" category, the item referring to kill stealing on bosses. It is not competition; it is griefing and is punishable by the CSRs as detailed in this post (specifically paragraphs 3 and 4).

That post also answers your question on how to react when someone else finds a boss first.

@Erizon

Ok.

Does Assassin Season still run? I know Marelli hasn't put down her pointy sticks... :p

Today while helping a Guild mate gain some fame I realized that this while being cooperative is also competitive. How so? I am happy to help noobs out but my friends of equal level I want to be higher, stronger, ... than them.

Great discussion.