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Never realized this before as when they were introduced, had already mastered all lands, but was just informed that the picks we can buy with our Nation Points are useless for non-masters.

From what I have been told, unlike normal picks where a homin with 100+ skill level can buy and dig with a 150 pick in a 150 region, you can't get a 150 racial pick with you NPs until you are level 150+, This makes it useless when you get it as a 150+ player, you would now be digging in a 200 area.

I understand that an argument can be made that this is a privilege for those who mastered another region, but this seems a bit myopic. Methinks newer players doing occupations should actually be able to use the tools they buy.

+1

Correct. The requirement for a homin to use a racial pick is that you have to have a harvest level equal to or above the pick you are attempting to use.
Example:
To use a level 200 pick you have to have a harvest level of at least 200 and to use a 250 pick you have to have a harvest level of 250.

Also picks bought by one player cannot be given to another.

Oh yeah ... one more thing ... why do these NPCs sell 200 / 250 cats ? These would be bought by ?

because before the merge they where usfull without the perma-cats and they just not been removed ^^

For the pick at least the last one can keep the requirement maybe.

For information i still use the q200 one, even being lv250, i still dig in q200 area.

They are not intended for training digging ^^

but yeah almost no one will use them :/

At least maybe just put the requirement for the q150 at lv 125 as a free trial player "reward".

It is one of the many cases of self-contradiction and illogic arising from making tools level dependent (and costly) after the merge. It rendered many of the OP mats more or less useless for most, and with the nation picks, the outcome is disastrous.

Before, the smaller picks could be used in all regions, their bonus was small but handy, their durability quite good, and the used pick could be delivered even if broken, and paved the way towards the real nation picks. Nowaday they are just a waste of nation points.

It should at least be possible to trade them so that younger players could benefit.

Os...

My recollection was that NH and racial vendors came into being with or right around the same time as server merge

I don't really dig in 200 areas as in most instances, 250 are actually easier to get and I really don't have to store / carry multiple picks

Not itended for digging ? Who doesnt benefit from the big fat focus boost ?

Dao...

Other than the trading part, I agree on all you said about the picks. An occupation where you could improve OP mats, would make the other 20 OPs relevant.

Freddy,

I am fully supporting your idea of an occupation improving OP mats. Maybe the same occupation should be able to give nation picks a provisional upgrade in level (until handing them out to the representative) so that they are not useless. That would be a better idea than making them tradeable.

Maybe just on aniro but racial pick was here years before the merge.
and i have said "training digging" not the same stuff :p
Without nh cheaper pick can still be nice to dig for low level craft but yeah if all people dig in the void... ^^

There were basicly reward for bringing mat for the anti kitin camp construction the first time we see them ;)

I remember using racial picks to level foraging after my first master in forage: I was low enough in other lands to be able to use them.
So, even if limited, I think there can be a use to racial picks even with their current limitations. (Not even considering the florist occupation or, as Osquallo put it, digging in non-250 areas, which has some interest.)

Apart from that, yes, I support the idea of removing the limitation on the level to get them, or to lower it: need at least level 100 to get the 150 pick, for example.

No, not the same thing ... there was a racial pick that you could get by completeing a rite which imvolved a series of deliveries. All those picks are still available.

The racial pick you can buy with new horizons poiints was certainly not available 3 years before merge because NH did not exist.

Freddy,

The "New Horizon points" are nation points. They were available before the merge. Only they could of course not be achieved by doing NH missions, but only by journey to the camps and kitin camp digging missions, and possibly by nation vs. nation PvP (I am not sure about the latter). It is still possible to achieve nation points over kitin observation camp missions.

Still the same, buy the 5 kind of pick and get the super racial pick on exactly the same guy than before, delivery/digging for camp and Nh are just a way to get the nation point but there are exactly the same pick.

You can still buy them without doing any occupation and giving nothing to NH ;)

I don't see it as the same (Desert example)

-Now, you buy the picks using NH points from Pyrus Zessen. You can easily obtain a large number of points because you can do the same low level missions over and over again for the same reward as someone doing the most difficult. New player could do level 1 WC and MC and accumulate lotta points quite easily

-Back then, you did missions for Abytheus Abygrian and, unlike NH, each one was required to be of a higher difficulty level... and back then, traveling was a bit more difficult then it is now. Only reason folks even did the mission was to turn in all 5 and get the super pick.  Many folks did it once "for the experience" but I didn't know a single person who wasn't a dig master who ever bothered doing it more than once and yhodr thsat did were after the QL 250 super pick w/ 250+ focus.

- And that is the heart of the **difference**, if you were a <250 level player, there was simly no incentive to do the missions ... all you could get was a pick you couldn't use.  So if you didn't have a dig master, ypu didn't bpother doing the missions and the level restriction was a non-issue.  But, now even folks on Silan are being told to "do occs", as soon as they get to ML ? ... and most everyone is doing occs.

-So yes, it is a **very** different from the situation before where it impacted almost no one, to a situation where now it affects everyone oing occs who isn't a master digger.

-We also didn't have a 125 level cap and F2P. Today, there is no point to selling 200 and 250 cats to anyone.  If we had the programming smaltz to get the whole level cap F2P / P2P separations and distinctions done, removing 200 / 250 cats shouldn't represents a major obstaacle.

-In short, the "oversight" a) obviously affects a much larger % of players post merge and b) they simply serve no point IG today.  In collecting dappers and fame via NH, which most players are doing, you wind up with a huge number of points  And the 4 items you can buy are simply not that appealing if you are not a master:

Wundahmat - If you are not a 250 digger, has little appeal as you are trying to level harvest along with craft.  Major uses by guildmates  ... craft missions for dapper by those w/ dig master.

Cats - Useless to P2P, useless over 150 to F2P.  Major uses by guildmates ... no response

Crystals - Again, appeal here is mostly to higher level players leveling up the 2nd and beyond skills in a category.  Major uses by guildmates ... bringing up seconday skills.

Picks - Again, appeal here is master diggers leveling up the 2nd region or beyond.   Major uses by guildmates ... used only by master diggers

So we have just 4 items that you can buy with your 100k nation points all of which have limited appeal without a master.  Having a tool with a level requirement that makes it unusable for any useful purpose, regardless of origin, should make the llist of things that should be corrected.

Now I am sure you can list "exceptions to the rule", but that's exactly what they will be ... exceptions to the rule.    I don't see how any similarities to anything pre-merge have any bearing on the subject at hand which is the limited usefullness of nation points to a lage segment of the player base.

As one who didn't start until a few months after Merge, I have to agree that there are a lot of remnants from a bygone era. It's time for q200/250 cats to go! I can't speak to much about pre-merge except to say that, by all accounts I've heard, it was a quite different place than the Ryzom I started playing.

Of the three things that are at least marginally useful to non-masters (potatoes, cats, and crystals), all of them require a bit of Ryzom-fu to use properly; something a large segment of the player base lacks. Sure, everyone here in this thread may know all about enchants and overseer missions, but we're also a bit more experienced than the average as well. Experienced enough that the crafting missions we do would require potatoes that take longer to earn the points to buy in bulk than it would to just dig the craft mats yourself, and cats are useless except for inflating our alts.

If it weren't for the q250 Faction pick, I myself wouldn't be doing NH turnins more than a couple times a month just to top off my crystal supply. With +50 fame in all four civilizations and more than sufficient dappers from craft missions, the only thing NH really offers me these days is replacement q250 picks. Non-masters cannot get usable picks, and crystals and low-q potatoes are cheap, so low-level players don't really have much more use for nation points than I do. THose who don't know about the usefulness of potatoes of the joy of enchants have no use at all for those points.

I never used Faction Picks until I mastered Lakes digging though. Between my choice of dig spots (after Silan, I went to Fount until I hit 140 then went straight to Loria) and careplanning for master diggers before I became one myself, I pretty much needed q250 picks exclusively ever since the first day I left Silan. The other 4 faction picks would've been of only limited (if any) use to me at any time even if their level requirements were dropped by 50.

So I'm not sure that lowering the level requirements on faction picks would really help all that much. Maybe using the q250 pick when one hits 200 might help those that don't skip regions like I did, but even then it's dubious unless Digging is your highest skill. By the time I moved my digging from Fount to Loria, I was already wearing q250 dig gear which made the minor boosts of the picks too low-q to use in Loria too trivial to be worth buying even if I could've.