ИДЕЯ ДЛЯ РИЗОМА

That grind must be either fun or addictive (think rats pressing a lever for random cheese drops addictive, there's a study on this). Ryzom promises neither. You grind just because you're required to - impossible to hit some mobs or players otherwise - not because you want to unlock some high level fun content.
See above. Nothing is fun about pressing "4" to heal, for 30 minutes/level at 240. This is a grind you just *have* to slog through, if you want to compete with others in actual gameplay. And usually grind is rewarded with something (you know, dangling the carrot) - Ryzom doesn't dangle anything.

For every person that says Ryzom's grind is fun, I hear 10-20 others who say it's not, or just quietly slip away because of the state of affairs.

I can sit on a stool and tell you that it's badly designed - sometimes even "why". But I could not tell you how to design and build a good stool, that's not my craft.

I am not a game designer or architect. There is a reason why those actually have a job with its own title, and get paid significant money for it. To come and tell me unironically that I should do this job for free (even if I were qualified for it) is just crass.

I just had to pass by, to approve almost everything Mjollren said.
*nods to Mjollren and goes away again*
PS : Did I forget to mention - Grinding is not funny in this game.

+1.

This thread is for the Idea of shortening auras and thier cooldowns, maybe an actual discussion thread is need to brainstorm what will 'fix' Ryzom.

Strange, Mjollren. Did you ever read that "Chasing the Ding" signature? Did you understand it, and did you ever share the feeling, the satisfaction to improve, much more when you experienced the results, were rewarded by new stanzas to try?

All that was no fun, did not motivate? I doubt. Moreover, as Bittty told, "you guys" (it is appropriate here) constantly confuse "it is no fun" with "it is no fun for me".

I was never bored during leveling. When doing my first melee master (dagger) I got used to train naked, because at that time, I depended on other players to craft my armor, and it was valuable for me, even emotionally, as nice higher players had bothered to craft it for me, mostly beatiful stuff according to my wishes. Additionally, it was fun and thrill to take on cuttlers in FF naked, armed only with two tekorn daggers. This works better than you think, of course it needs a very attentive healer.

I had other methods to make level grind interesting. My ele training, as far as it was solo, was, once I was higher in level, performed in regions like SC and GoC, where cuttlers, tyranchas, jugula etc. are attacking herbies, which had to serve as my tanks. This was not without dangers or failures, but never boring. And, to be honest, I can, at least at times, even enjoy repetetive stuff, it is somehow reassuring and relaxing and may free your mind. Same goes, even more, with digging which can indeed be very addictive.

Yes I know, you'll find that ridiculous. I for my part could equally rant about PvP, that it is boring, always the same, leading to nothing than waste of good equipment, and is most times not a victory of the better fighter than of the faster box, the stronger weapon or better armor, or even the larger number, and often leads to dissent and resentment, sometimes even hate. All that is true and untrue at the same time: it is true for me, as I don't like PvP and have no fun with. I is of course not true for people who practise and like it and I am far from miswanting or deriding their fun.


I doubt your "statistics". Of course one can practise level training in a boring way and get bored - how astonishing. I have leveled up everything without boredom, and am still helping off team at times.

There are a lot of things which require improvement in Ryzom, the skill ladder clearly is not among them.

Edit: just read and +1 Placio

It looks like Daomei only wanted to oppose with an argument that would seem 'realistic' or 'logic' but in fact it's completely wrong.


I didn't want to respond at first... But, I couldn't let such thing to be seen without clarification. Okies, I approved the idea 'No fun in leveling' because I do have enough experience in leveling and I spent most of my gaming-experience (which lasts long) doing that. But, in the other hand, how much does Daomei spend in PvPing... Did she ever try it? Well... Nevermind... I guess, I/we know... :)



Boring: How could it be? Explain... Wow!
The same: *Shocked again* PvP is dynamic and always change... You don't know what PvP jewels your enemie is wearing, the way your enemie would react or which 'Auras' would he use...
Leading to nothing: Actually it leads you to everything *smiles*. PvP is very competitive and teach you alot of things... It's much more than killing a Programmed-Mob that always acts/behaves the same way.
Waste of good equipment: Well, wahh! What? If you don't use your best equipements in PvP then, where would you use them? On a Great Cuttler? You don't need any good equipements when it comes to PvE.
After that, I didn't really get much your next arguments... They didn't make sens to me, you used a lot of words just to fit the place... 'dissent', 'resentment', 'hate'... Either you have changed the topic or I am not really getting it, because PvP is very far away from that.


If you have mastered all your skills, got all NPC armors yet you still dying easly against a Homin, and you couldn't protect yourself in PvP regions... That doesn't make much sens even in RP...


If you can not PvP then don't judge it.
If you do not like PvP then try it.


(*Nods* Not really its place but it could fit, I couldn't resist:)

@Yenno I do believe The PvP thing was not a real argument. More like a "Don't say something I like is not enjoyable, because I can tell you the same for something you like." kind of argument.
Even though what she said about PvP is not correct because she didn't get into it anyway.



I also believe that this discussion is getting pointless.

As every "fixing" discussion I've ever seen so far.
Because it confronts 2 completely different points of view which, even by discussing a lot, can hardly reach an agreement.

Apparently, players that are happy with the game will be happy forever since it won't change for us little unhappy players; And sadly enough we will just leave unhappy - as every other unhappy player that left before and will leave after us.

The point of any "fixing" thread, in my opinion, should not be "this needs to be fixed" (implied by someone else), but "this change" should be implemented because it doesn't break anything and it makes (this aspect) better.

The original post here proposed a poorly described set of changes to the protective and healing auras and merely said the changes would make the game "more dynamic", without specifying how the change would do so, nor how the impact on the current use of those stanzas would be mitigated.  Naturally it met resistance.

In the meantime, you are correct that the point of the discussion wandered. The question then becomes: What are the "two completely different points of view"?  Is if PvP vs. PvE?  (I don't think so.) Is it "rapid action fighting"?  What is it?

@Bitty I was thinking of an opposition between players comparing Ryzom with other MMORPGs (gameplay wise) which i believe are me, Klrs, Mjollren... vs people playing the game as it is without really questioning gameplay.

I do agree on your point of proposing a real change to be applied or not with stats and values and whatever you need - however I will quote Mjollren here ''I am not a game designer or architect. There is a reason why those actually have a job with its own title, and get paid significant money for it. To come and tell me unironically that I should do this job for free (even if I were qualified for it) is just crass.''

You know, I love this game. I unsubscribed but I still can't let go of this universe and it's community. And I dream of the day I'll be able to play a game while playing the game. Because this is not a game. It's literally just another universe. Quite the glitched one though, but I hope y'all get what I am trying to say.

To make two things clear:
1. My point was not to slander PvP much less the players enjoying it. As Rook understood correctly, I reverted the assertion that digging were boring.

To elaborate that further, any statement like "Digging [leveling, PvP, whatever] is boring" is, by its nature, a universal proposition, a statement claiming universal validity. Such a statement, according to the laws of propositional logic, can be disproven by a single contradicting instance. If the statement "Daomei considers digging not boring" is true, the proposition "Digging is boring" is falsified and disproven.

2. The rather emotional contradiction especially by Yenno how I perceive PvP is funny. Indeed I practised PvP, in other games, and even in Ryzom, all flavors (Duel, Arena, nvn team fight) except ganking, to the extent to reach a conclusion about how I feel about. PvP is not an arcane science, btw., it can be studied, observed etc. even without practising it. My attitude stems from the fact that I favor cooperation over competition, like win-win situations, and despise the winner takes it all even (and particularly) in case I am the winner.

And it seems ridiculous to me to assume that somebody who has all combat skills at hand at master level, does not know about how to fight, to prepare stanzas, and to react fast under changing conditions. I am seldom sitting at the stables and chatting, and not only homins require versatile reactions. Of course I could fare above average in PvP once I would decide to practise it. If I would not achieve outstanding excellence then because that requires enthusiasm and dedication I lack, and constant training I am not willing to undergo. Denying that I am able to validly judge that PvP is boring to me is as arrogant as ignorant. It is similar as if I would deny someone's ability to appraise his boredom during digging only because he has not mastered all 5 ecos.