ИДЕЯ ДЛЯ РИЗОМА

No! Over there! *We are rocking the ship!* Nopes- This is actually me being sneaky and grabbing your attention. The reason being is Xtarsia recently came up with an idea which I think is perfect to change OP wars to a better state. I hear you all groaning.. another OP war topic but please: Hear me out! :)

The current state of affairs: is very... political. PVP shouldn't be political. People groan about having to defend their outposts as if they are being pressured into turning up (which they kind of are). One big faction vs another big faction. Numbers are un-even to a drastic measure causing the minorities to group up- to not much effect.

What is missing: PVP should be dynamic and full of energy. Ryzom itself needs more face paced action, something pvp should provide.

Why is this missing:OP wars are split into two phases. Looking from an attackers point of view: The first phase itself is fun, exciting and gives the attackers a chance to win regardless of their numbers. You don't need to wipe the opposing side to kill the guards. The second phase however is where you have to defend the guards, which really requires wiping the other faction (yes there are some tactics you can use but against a massive force you really don't have many options). The second phase, the defence phase, slows down the whole process. Why not just have the defence phase when someone decides to attack your new OP?

So the crux of this post: Remove the second phase of OPs. Some parts to the outpost will need to be tweaked. If people like this idea then the numbers can be debated but just as a rough example: The attackers need to win 12 rounds to gain control of the OP. There is a cooldown once you win an OP of ~5 days and you get double production for the first two days (or a cooldown of a week). Drill prices and declares need to be made cheaper. The countdown to build a drill should be reduced. If anyone has any ideas that will benefit please say.

Some generalizations about why I think this is a good idea: So this will mean OPs change hands lots. Hopefully lots of OP wars will occur. This is a good thing. I know many people hate having to attend triplex's attacks and there is a simple answer to those people: If you don't like going to OP wars- Don't go! OP wars are a PVP mechanic that has been manipulated into Kami vs Kara, with people believing it is their right to own certain OPs in their own lands. This stalemate between the two powers has caused the stagnation and the aggro surrounding OP wars (Well some of it :P). Wars in them self would be much better if it was nation vs nation allowing for a greater degree of side switching, alas this isn't the case. I don't expect Kami will ever fight Kami, Kara will ever fight Kara and so on and so forth. This is the way the game has developed and understandably so. Removing the second phase empowers smaller numbers to try different tactics out to try and win wars. This doesn't have to just benefit the smaller factions, it means guilds can try attacks on their own and have good fun whilst doing so. Also means no counter declaring on defence phases and the whole mess associated with that. Anyways I realize I am rambling a bit now- thank you if you made it to the end of the post. Any questions/queries/troubles you have about the idea feel free to comment why and I will be happy to discuss them. Any feedback or poll-voting is good :)

Hey y'all !

I voted yes because I do believe a higher turnover in OPs could be fun. Mat production would really need a workover though, as the possibility would be very high, one would only be holding the OP for 5 days (as it then becomes attackable again). And do I really wanna invest my hard-earned dappers if I get hardly any production out of 5 days of holding an OP?

And as a question that just popped up in my head - yes, this does happen from time to time :-) What about the OP threshold?

Peace!

Seralee

+1, I vote yes. For all the reasons already stated.

(still trying to find out what is that over there =P)

I'm not sure you considered how important the defense phase is to Owners. Op owners set the time for the defense, while attackers can choose the time for attack. If there were only one part of the battle the attackers would just choose a very inconvenient time for the OP owners, and owners would have no chance to actully show up at a time which they are strong.

No vote yet, would like to see what other ideas there are. Maybe just reduce the number of rounds each phase lasts. Waiting around for 15ish rounds after attackers give up is not fun...

obvious +1 from me, was my idea, and thanks for posting virg, im lazy sometimes :p

Placio, the point is, for your "defence phase": you just re-declare!

you not only get to pick the time, but also the day, and you have plenty of time to prepare too!

I would also suggest: reduce drill cost by half, leave attack cost the same, but if you owned the OP within the last 2 weeks, you get 1 free declare on that OP? not soo sure about that though. game needs a good dapper sink after all :)

ok I'm ready to vote then, if the idea is that attackers can just take an OP without having to face the owners on their time frame, we will just have a bunch of attacks occuring at ridiculous times and everyone will be pissed off.

Every faction has players from different time zones Placio. There will be people to defend at any time regardless. Some people could attack at an 'annoying' time- but by definition it is an annoying time for them also. I am sure OP attacks will sometimes occur at annoying times but if they keep on happening- then the people showing up to attack are going to get pissed off as well. At a round count of 12 (just a rough figure) a handful of people aren't going to manage that alone. You need a decent enough force. Especially with some defenders turning up as well.

This seems an interesting idea.

OP are there for the tactical side and pvp. The reward is good, too good because the owners cling to the OP instead of savoring the war. What is pleasure to be 10 versus 1 ? Just the satisfaction to keep "my preciouuuuus".

Remove the defense phase will bring the unexpected, even more risk. Yes, it is likely that the OP will be tackled difficult times; but in a global server I do not think it is completely a problem ... The OP will be won on time by people in GMT+1, one time by GMT+12 (and insomniacs friends). Alliances between guilds will do better than solitary guilds ("you defend our OP since this is your hour, we defends you on other time").

This will make this part of gameplay more dynamic . Strangely, I think it may even benefit those people make little pvp: with more attacks, they are likely to win an OP one day or another because the owner has decided not to come.

This may also have an interesting impact on the economy. OP are one of the big money out of positions: if they are attacked more often (and change hands), the money will go in there.

I want see a test, for one or two month.

I like the idea but I can also see some gripes about the time frame, as previously mentioned.

What if, in addition, the time between declaring and the actual war is increased from 24 hours to 48 hours or something?

This will give the defenders more time to be aware and get the word out/prepare.

Opinions?

+1 Sygmus.

This is a game after all and many times RL interferes with people being able to play every day. So increase the time until the actual war to like 4 days so they can be informed of war against their OP and be ready for situations where there is no defense phase. If the attackers want the war fast, then keep it as it is. Maybe give an option

Also, if there is no defence phase, then allow the previous owner of the op to declare for free. as Xstarsia said.

I don't believe in double output in that time. Make them "PAY" if they want to attack and own an OP. Pay for a new drill, etc! I cannot over emphasize that point!

A current strategy for winning op is to launch new attacks during phases 2 of previous attacks.
What will happen with the new system?

@ Xtarsia: +1 For 1 free declare of previous owning guild

@ Laofa: +1

@ Sygmus: Certainly 48 hours would give more time for the current owners to get more produce and prepare for the attack. It does make the dynamic slightly slower but something I would happily agree on if there was only 1 phase.

@ Naema: The reason I suggested double output during a shorter time frame was to put emphasis on owning OPs on a short term, not for months at a time. With a cooldown of a week you will earn little OP mats and if you loose the OP after the cooldown is ended many people might give up thinking 'well what was the point in that!'. Trying to make OPs more dynamic is good, but they still need to be worth something.

@ Zendae: 'Also means no counter declaring on defence phases and the whole mess associated with that.'
I know counter declaring is a valid tactic but if we are honest it just pisses 90% of the playerbase off and drags OP wars into one long boring counter declare after another as the factions struggle for power.

I might even suggest double xp during the entire cooldown period so that the owning guild might get as many as ten OP mats (I think that's the usual rate x 2). If this scheme actually makes OP ownership evanescent, then there does need to be an incentive to spend the money to attack for something you will very likely only hold for a short time.

In the end, however, I don't see this plan as doing anything substantial to change the current K/K lock on the OPs unless a neutral Guild manages to pry all its friends loose from the two KA's to take an OP.

And then things would get *really* political.

@ Bitttymacod: I think this will have an impact. Purely the the view that removing the defence phase makes an OP much easier to attack. Making it easier to win and OP, and harder to retain it, will improve the dynamics of OP wars. Also I think double xp the entire time of the cool down would be good.