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By grunts I referred to the tribes who showed up to "help" during the introduction of the Marauder pseudo-faction.  *They* did not have special armor.  I've never even seen the guards of the Marauder village, but I would point out with respect to the Kami and Kara (especially the latter), that Karavan followers can't get Karavan armor.

One of the points of the NPC Boss armor is that you can tell by the look of the armor that the person involved is an active player with strong support that has managed to bring down NPC bosses time after time.  For any goober Marauder (a category that most emphatically does NOT include you, Toak) to be able to have that look is diluting the worth of the armor, even if the q100 Marauder HA has the normal stats for player armor with other skins.

I'd much rather see Marauder skins made that can be learned by any crafter (start counting the SP, guys, they just got rare).  More work for the devs, but more balanced in play.

By saying that how you meant grunts as in TRIBES proves that isn't Marauders that you were refering to, since a TRIBE and a FACTION are 2 different things last i checked.

As to the Kami armour - the sentinals aren't even homins so they can't wear armour. As to the Karavan armour - I can't state enough of the fact that they have many advantages that Marauders do not (that goes for the kamis too).

Also - this is a forum for MARAUDER ARMOUR FOR MARAUDERS - if you want to point out that the other factions don't have it too - then go ahead and make your own thread about it - dont make your sole argument of "they can't have that since we don't have that".

Funnily enough you are pretty much fighting for what I already have in my forum post: "[Multiple responses] PvP/PvE rewards and ideas."
http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/17014/23 #23

In this the devs have responded "This will be studied: There are complex matters of game balance to be considered."

The only difference is you seem to want to be able to buy them with dappers instead of PvP points. So I have a few points to raise:

1) Dappers have got to be the easiest grind in this game. So in my mind you are basically asking for the opportunity to be able to get the marauder NPC armour for free, simply because you are a marauder.

2) You say that marauders don't fight each other and this wouldn't make sense. However I see you guys fighting each other all the time.

3) You argue that marauders such a Sergio and Aen have this armour so why shouldn't you? Well.. I shall tell you. They have earned this armour. It takes around 2 teams of masters to kill them- where-as you barely need one master to kill you. What makes you think you are so worthy to wear this armour? You need to earn it. I personally believe the system in which you should earn it is through PvP points.

4) If you agree that you should be able to obtain these items through PvP points please kindly stop talking. You are doing more harm than good.

5) For the love of Ma-Duk stop putting everything in capitals.

I have some points of my own to raise for you as well:

1) With the negative fame required to be a Marauder your tribe fames drop as well, and if you raise them then your "Anti-Fame" will be counteracted and you would no longer be a Marauder.

2) It sounds like you are saying that we fight each other homins - not the NPCs, where as we do that for dueling and testing things as well as practicing.

3) You sort of contradict yourself by saying this since the 2 teams of masters go against it and only 1 person gets a piece of armour - how is it any different if that 1 person who can be beaten by 1 master as well has the armour?

4) PvP points are even easier to grind in this game than dappers - it would be idiotic to use it for that.

5) Bite me.

*Leaning back, reaching for the popcorn, and waiting for Bitty to be baited by the response to (4)*

1) Why are you chatting about tribe fame... what has that got to do with anything?

2) I recently took part in a 2v2v2v2v2. 2 kami teams, 2 marauder teams and 1 kara team all fighting each other. Yes.. thats right... marauders fighting each other. It happens. Seeing as you don't mind killing each other for you to go attack the NPC bosses seems well within RP limits so stop whining.

3) I am saying sergio and aen are tough marauders and hard to kill. They have earned the right to wear such armour. You on the other hand have not.

4) If you are referring to farming PvP points this is illegal. Other than that PvP points are tough to raise even when you have been winning 2v5s in the marauder camp daily (said from personal experience).

1) I said tribe fame because if Marauders do overseer missions at all then that is where they have to do it - at tribes. Due to the low fame Marauders are unable to do the Tryker/Matis/Zorai/Fyros overseer missions.

2) The NPCs such as Sergio and Pei are the First Lieutenants of Melkiar the Black Varnix, who is our Warlord. An attack on his Lieutenants would be like attacking him in turn.

3) How is that any different from the Karavan, Kami, Neutral, and Rangers who grind them all the time to get pieces of their armour? They aren't as strong - yet they have the armour too.

4) You got into the camp via a glitch that - what would you know, is illegal - and just ran around the camp healing each other waiting for most of the Marauders to leave before finally attacking. Also, tons of people camp PvP points - you can go around Atys and see it all the time.

looooooooooool

well the guys being selling marauder pvp on uni daily have been marauders that farmed the points os first get your own factions shit tougheteher befor calling out ppl for doing something illegal if they got the points fair and scuare against your faction cheating uni daily to get some dapper

seccondly stop spamming uni for selling the marauder shield it really gets boring

3th I seel marauder 'alts' in dyron all the time doing the civ specific racial new horizon turnins with alts to get some of our free pvp points and dapper not daily but like constanly (even some are numbred so the marauders can keep track of their alts doing em all over atyt)


=> those are just some of my concerens if you gonna start accusing guildies of mine breaking rules by buying marauder gear in the marauder city by using pvp points they got fair and by sneaking into the city then maybe you wanna get rid of the real cheaters in your faction before accusing actuall ppl of cheating when they just abuse sstupid guards :D

1) You can sell stuff at black markets or whatever for dappers easily. Or even win dappers doing PvP. Dappers are so easy to come by- you know it, I know it.

2) Strange then I've seen a marauder wearing pei armour...

3) I have only seen 1 person farming PvP points and immediately asked them to stop. Who are all these people you are referring to?

4) I walk in through the front door. Stop crying about dying in PvP and blaming on a wall, its getting rather old and boring. The reason why you die is because you need to improve on your skills, not get a wall fixed. There are at least 5 different ways into the marauder camp and only 1 is using a wall glitch.

5) Earning marauder armour with PvP points fits perfecting into your RP. Earning rewards by killing kami and karat, or are you simply afraid you can't earn any points of killing kami and karas?

Suboxide - I have no clue in hell what you said but from what I have made out it has something to do with Uni which I have muted and never go onto. Also when did I accuse anyone specifically of grinding the points? Somehow you conjured that out of thin air since I only said that I see people doing it all the time. As to the New Horizon, I've never seen any Marauders or their alts at the New Horizons while i run around regions and I never hear any talk of them doing such.

As to Virg
1) Dappers CAN be easy to come by - but they are not always, for things being sold it all relies on supply & demand. As to the PvP dappers - it all depends on time as well, not always are dappers provided to the victor.

2) It makes sense not to attack the Marauder bosses but some choose to do it for the armour since their is no other way to get it since we cannot purchase it.

3) I've seen far more people than just "1" person farming, all you have to do is look for them.

4) I think I've PvP'd against you twice, and I never blamed any wall if I did die. Also since when are you all high and mighty? Whenever I see you trying to PvP it usually ends with you on the ground face in the dirt with your Marauder armour and your OP mat weapons.

5) Like I have said - PvP points are one of the easiest things to grind in the game. As to the killing Karavan and Kamis - I have no trouble killing them at all, and are you having fun acting like your the best at PvP in the game when I've seen you dead more times than I care to count?

6) Please for heaven sakes learn how to count.

1) So you admit dappers are easy to come by? If so this would make your armour easy to obtain so basically you just want it by putting in as little effort as possible..

2) People farming are a different discussion- that is for the devs to deal with and I would hope they would take all farmed items.

3) You cry about us running through the wall constantly as if that is the reason you die. We do not run around waiting for the marauders to leave. We go to the camp to actually fight them. You just usually run to your GH and wait for more to come.

4) Not high and mighty. Just speaking facts. That you are not difficult to kill, that we have been doing 2v5s in the marauder camp and that we aren't the ones who end up dead.

5) Yes you have seen me dead after 1v3s etc and I have no trouble admitting that :)

EDIT: Yes I can see the number issue. You cut me deep saying I can't count

1) They CAN be - but usually are not, so not as little effort as possible. You're talking to a person who has had no income for the past 2 months.

2) Its actually entirely to do with the discussion at hand, the fact that people can grind it so easily makes it a bad idea to use PvP points for it.

3) I go into my GH to wait for my PvP flag to go away then i port out, since the people at Asylum cannot clue into the fact that they are not wanted within the marauder walls.

4) Like I have said - I only remember fighting you twice, and I do not remember a 2v5. When Asylum does win at those numbers its by running around healing the entire time, not fighting at all, then when everyone has left they actually fight.

5) I have seen you dead after many 1v1's and 2v2's, stop trying to cover your tail by saying that you are always outnumbered - because we both no that is not the case.

1) People shouldn't be able to farm PvP points and I would hope the devs put an end to farming if they made PvP points worth something. The simple fact is dappers are easy to grind and tradable. This would make your armour instantly obtainable if you wished it. You could grind the dappers on an alt, do deals with other people etc etc.

2) Asylum love the fact we aren't wanted within the marauder walls. Thats why we go there in the first place for PvP. I was told by 2 HOs of clan to just go and attack the clan members whenever I wanted PvP and was told not to even bother asking.

3) You werent there for the 2v5. We dont wait for people to leave. I'm sorry you are saying we are boring people by healing? Healing is a vital element in PvP. If you don't know that I am afraid you should go back to PvP basics.

4) No tail to cover. I only remember loosing duels in the maro camp to kitane and acour. I simply made the point I have been winning a lot of battles and still finding the PvP points a slow grind.

1) Just because people shouldn't be able to grind PvP points doesn't mean they can't, they still do, and they still will. Also, dappers may be able to train for some - but most people do not have an alt grind up their craft, and most people dont try to get a tremendous amount of money from someone all at once. I just recomended a price that is rediculously high for one piece - not for just the whole set.

2) Good for you, and the fact that you go in is the reason why so many either de-tag or go into their GHs/apts. And how about we drop this bickering about the walls and whatnot considering it has nothing to do with the thread.

3) No I dont believe I was there, and yes healing is vital in PvP - but just healing and not actually fighting is not PvP - its being an annoyance and just proving why we dont want you to come in.

4) Regardless of that - the fact that one can grind up 960 pvp points from one kill at max - makes it an easy grind, you just need to know how the system works to get that many points.

This is dragging on a fair bit.. just to sum up for me and I am done here (maybe):

Dappers are easy to come by in this game. They are tradable and earning 10Mill in 1 day is not hard to achieve. To put marauder armour up for sale for dappers would see pretty much every marauder wearing it very quickly.

PvP points are not tradable. They are a long grind unless you illegally farm which the devs should be preventing. They require killing members of opposing factions which fit perfectly into RP of "earning" the right to wear such decent armour.