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Hi there,
I was hoping i could put forward the rangers as the next organisation to be developed. I have sent off an email with some ideas for them but also wanted to see how many others would be interested in this? I would hope the rangers would be for 100% kitin killing, for those who just enjoy smashing kitins into the ground and not be affected by politics and drama :P

I think as the kitins are invading us.. its only right its time we invade them right back! I could see the rangers at the forefront of these invasions and perhaps we could start breaking a few boulders down in the kitin lair and see whats really down there :)

Thanks,
Virg

At first I was quite interested in the new organizations, but now after the marauders have been implemented I have no more interest in the other organizations. When the known 3 organizations are implemented there will be a total of 5 factions. Kami, karavan, marauder, ranger, trytonist. Why call them "organizations" if they are so exclusive to the other factions? These are just splitting the playerbase into smaller guilds when the majority are small enough as it is. Smaller guilds = newer players feeling lonely/bored and leaving the game because they don't know enough players to find a hunting team or just to have fun.

surely guilds = dividing the player base?

rangers sounds alright :o) but how about a proper invasion? or how about things that change atyss. rauder camp seems ok as its the only change to the original lands apart from the portal to zorai fryo. (not counting the lair or pvp or boss fighting tedium)

new players are alone because no one interacts with them.... nothing stops this....

viva le revolutión!

Maruaders are considered a third faction because all their fames oppose everyone else. This divides them from everyone else.

Rangers would be made for 100% kitin bashing. Therefore I was hoping the rangers wouldnt require any real fame requirements (maybe 0+ in each civ fame) thus opening the organisation to anyone (who isnt part of another organisation). If this happened then this wouldnt divide the playbase it would in fact create a connection between more people. You could have kami and kara rangers playing along side each other untied against a common cause.

i can see this working as kara and kami join ranger ranks together for the protection of Atys. Maybe even working in those who are Hominists. In fact i dont know why they couldnt continue to be part of the other organizations too.

I tought rangers would be more something like hominst/theist.
I was thinking +40 fame for all to be able to do the rite, but uncap the civ fame so a ranger can get +100 fame for all civilisations they try to protect and keep the faction fame cap at 50 since they don't give that much about fame. They are more scolars in my idea i guess.

about the more organistations debate:
I do like an uneven number when it comes to war, makes it alot easier to turn the tides.
And diversity is great in everything.

and about smaller guilds:
Well you are in a big guild but what do you have against a smaller guilds? I know bobs can't be cared for 24h a day in them but I'm sure most small guilds do a great job on helping their bobs. And AA has been small in the past aswell last year or was i 2 ago I left AA when i was only active member in it at the time. Guilds come and grow then dissapear again, that's great about ryzom. Bobs shouldn't be scared out of joining great small guilds.
And looking at what happend, at the moment 90% of marauders are ex-gojers, it was sad for us to leave GoJ, but we are still friends and chat with each other alot. Don't look at so dark you can be friends with ppl in different guilds/factions/civilisations/oragnisations/...
Just rember pvp and wars are for fun, kill eachother during the wars and laugh/chat/team with each other after them.

The current Marauder thing makes the fame realistically VERY unbalanced (I tried to balance it and had to add 7 new groups (all having a fame of 100 for marauders)!

I added the Dark Matis and Fyros Nomads with some realistic numbers (for the races) and 100 for marauders and it's the same number of extra groups, now the additional 5 would nearly all have 100 fame for all races though and don't like each other (5 + 2 = 7).

And when adding Rangers and Trytonists in there as well with (somehow) realistic values for the Marauders as well I get additional 8 groups to those 4 (8 + 2 + 2 = 12) all of them pretty much liking all races AND the marauders (not very realistic)

If you want to have a look at this OpenDocument Sheet I saved my calculations in it ;-)

Ummm... There is no such thing as "fame" for the Marauders because they are not a civilization or a faction. They are an organization (in theory).

There are fame requirements with respect to the civs and factions to be able to do the rite, and you must maintain those (I assume) in order to have access to the Marauder tps, but while they have fame with respect to Tryker and Karavan, I do *not* have fame with respect to them. (I am both Tryker and Karavan.)

That is the major difference between the pseudo-faction "organizations" and a true faction.

I'm not sure what you meant by balancing fame, Jarnys. I couldn't understand your spreadsheet.

Bitty mac'od: it was mainly a reaction to the idea of Suboxide to make the Rangers something akin to a civilization where Rangers should be able to get +100 fame for all (other) civs
If you see the Rangers as an extra civ then the marauders should be one as well - this lead to those calculations.

Currently all fame is balanced like this for the civs:
Neutral = max 50 everywhere
Aligned = +100 civ, 0 enemy civ, +75 aligned civ, +25 last civ (those are the max possible values)
If you add those up you'll always get max 200 fame over all civs.

So if you introduce the marauders as a civ they'd have to get from this point of view +100 maro and 0 all others (additional neutral 50 fame makes a total of 250) so there would be 150 fame "missing" for the maros but the game mechanics dictate that maros have to have -50 for all civs making it a missing 350 possible fame.

The introduction of the rangers as a 100+ max for all civs would lead to the same kind of problem just the other direction.
Rangers = 50 for neutral -> 250 in total possible but rangers have already 500 max possible. even if it's reduced to +75 max then it's 400 max possible (still 150 fame too much)

All choices should have a balanced amount of benefits and disadvantages.
And this balancing would be disturbed a lot for such fame choices.

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I'm not against the idea of making the rangers available as a "organization" choice for homins (like the maros are on ari and ani already)
But I wouldn't include them as having an influence on maximum fame possible unless it's very well balanced which would be very hard with the given mechanics for maros or the idea given above for the rangers.

I personally love this idea. I think if people are willing to be a ranger and put the effort in.. why not be able to reach 100+ in all fames? As a ranger you are actively protecting them all.

As to the fact that all path choices should be balanced.. well depends on what you think as ballanced. The marauders can't enter the 4 main cities but at the same time they have merchants that show stuff selling in every city whereas non marauders have to tp around to find everything.. is this fair? Everyone has a different opinion of what is balanced and what is not. If you put more effort into things you should get a greater reward in my opinion :)

I am all for this idea.
I especially like the idea of the the +100 fame for all civilisations.

I also think and hope that an official title for Rangers is implemented.

But overall I think this will bring a great deal of team working between homins of different backgrounds and excitement! :)

I don't mind more organizations as it gives players more choise. The only concern I'd have is that I wouldn't want to see it imlemented in such a way that pvp becomes forced. Is it going to become a forced opposed to mauraders? Will the implementation of rangers as (possible) anti mauraders give the mauraders the feeling its ok to attack any guild regardless of their pvp stance?

I am marauder, and I don't care about the positive or negative effects of being marauder. I only bear pride in being one, and offer my actions and time to making marauders prosper. If you want to be equal to everyone else, and still be different, then you are a paradox.
For a (long) period all marauders exsisting had a life without merchants and trainers. We had to work for them. If other organisations don't have to work for it, that's fine for me, as long as they have to devote themselves for their choice. Just paying 30K and answering some questions isn't really devoting to it, as I think of it.

A good rite can put things right!

When the rite requires something, you'll see only people truly wanting get into the organisation. No matter howmany treats you get and lose. Ryzom always has standed for this: you gain some, you lose some. That's why there isn't just one religion, and isn't just one race.

I don't see rangers as an anti-marauder organization. I can even see them work toughether for some things.

All I know about ranger is that they are homins from all races that are 100% against kittins and don't give much about the rest.
Marauders have fled from old world that's overrun by kittins on their own, now they want a place to live and mine, ...
So why wouldn't it be possible for marauders to share a bit of their anti kitten weapons they must have invented while living in the old world to stay safe. In exchange marauders get some 'protection' from rangers.

I can even find less lore about rangers then marauders, so the above story is just me freestyling something to show how rangers would not be anti-marauder, they both have a different agenda

I doubt the rangers would want to work with homins who use and weaponize goo :P that's as big of a threat to Atys as the kitins