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[ This is a continuation of some slightly off-topic thoughts from the thread [url=http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/?page=topic/view/8812/31]Comp etition types in Ryzom[/url], and explains why apathy is not necessarily a possible option if we want to keep this game and this community that we do have. ]

There is another game, more of a true sandbox than Ryzom. It is a space-themed game, and one that I really wanted to like. However, for various reasons, I have since stopped playing.

In that game, you learn very quickly not to trust your neighbor, or anyone else you talk to, including those in your own guild (called a corporation, in that game). It is very much an attitude of paranoia, and it is not unfounded. In that game, there is a very real sense of loss: when you die, you lose your ship, its equipment, and anything you were carrying.

There is a very large segment of the community in that game who will celebrate you for unethical behaviour, such as stealing everything from the corporate storage. Sometimes, if your heist wasn't particularly noteworthy or took too long to accomplish, that same community will ridicule you for not doing better.

Another popular concept is "suicide ganking", in which you travel into the "protected" areas of the game to destroy an under-defended opponent. You will lose your ship and equipment, but so will the victim. Often, this is used to grief industrial players who are flying glass coffins worth significantly more than the cost of the ship it takes to destroy them. There was a community-sponsored event, with prizes, centered around the suicide ganking of industrial ships.


Someone who enjoys this style of game-play will not be happy in Ryzom. We could let them find out for themselves, I cede that point. We can sit and do nothing, and this will work itself out.

Someone who enjoys this style of game-play may try to bring those types of actions to Ryzom. If they do it without warning, I also cede the point that the CSRs can handle it. We may lose some potential players, as new players are likely the ones to suffer more than the older players, but we can still sit and do nothing and this will mostly work itself out.


Someone who enjoys this style of game-play may also come to this game and try to promote that style of game-play publicly and privately to other players. That is where our community must step in and ensure this person understands that that kind of behaviour is not acceptable here, and optionally point them toward games that support their play-style.

In this last case, if we sit and do nothing, you might find that the community around you will change and it will change in a way that the existing players do not like. As an example, several years ago it was considered griefing to gas packers; now it seems a common and accepted practice, and one player is even renowned for it by having her name associated with the practice.


If the choice is to have Ryzom expand and become like this other game, or wither away and die, then there is no choice. For me and maybe for many others, those two options equate to the same thing: Ryzom would become a game that is not worth playing anymore.

Thank you Erizon for doing this. I felt bad going off topic in the last thread. But felt compelled to post lol I don't often post.
Everyone has different style of playing. There are the casual players, the power levelers, the gankers, the trolls, oh I could go in. But Ryzom is and has always been different.
Why would you leave one game and go to another only to make it like the one you just left. Makes no sense to me.
If this game is not what you like then don't stay, it is as simple as that. I have left games because they were not what I wanted, I didn't go and say but I don't like the way the people play in this game, you have to change for me, or I am going to leave.
We have a great community, one of the best, we have a great event team, we have a great support staff.
Yes we are a small game, and I thank Winchgate for trying to keep us alive. But if to stay alive we have to change and be like some of the other games, then I will leave. Yeah we may finally die but for now I will enjoy it and revel in it.

Hmm has winch gate said anything of ryzom needing to change or ryzom going down? Did I miss an important memo somewhere??

Why does this game have to change or why does the community have to change?
If ryzom changes that means the old timers change, and I don't see that happen. If some new ppl come ingame and start playing the a-holls they will never get any help for gear/weapons/quests/guilds/outposts/... and without all this help you can't really play this game successfull. Look at what the mac store brought us we had lots off ppl joining in the beginning and alot off them wheren't the kind off ppl we are used to but all those left within a week and the good stayed behind.
But if the oldies change the game and for instance start ganking in PR and others gank back well then thats gonna change the game but not some new players.

I agree with Sokolo and Suboxide. I have been here almost since day 1, well not quite but pretty close. Took forever for my beta disc to get to me. Think it went around the world twice. If it changed from what it was and has been, it would be the end of the game for me.
We have our resident children :) that is enough we don't need a whole bunch :)
It is still a outstanding game even as old as it is.

Ryzom is ruled by its old players, not by the company. That probably makes it different to other mmogs.

On this aspect Ryzom reminds me those classic Neverwinter Nights servers. With a maximum of 20-30 players online at the same time, each server had its own customs and ways of roleplaying, enforced by the ones who became admins. Anything different was taken out of server.

It made sense there but Ryzom is huge and supports hundreds of players.

(lots of edition sorry)

I stopped having fun 2 weeks after I joined a guild on mainland. They gave me all gear I could dream about, renewed every 20 levels. They gave me catalyzers. They trekked me to all the teleports I could need. They even powerleveled me.

And they said "level fast to 250 so you can have fun with us".

I was already having fun at Silan playing around, trying things, joining teams and making friends for finding out how to enjoy the many aspects of the game. So after some time I left the guild and now I play on my own while making more friends and tasting every minute and level, at my own pace.

I would change all help from high level players for a humble guild of noobs learning and having fun together, and call it success.

But...

...the lack of new players will not help at all.

I think that depends from guild to guild. It's all about how the guilds work some are heavly on power lvling, some are haevy on digging/crafting, some are pure for fun/do what you like when you like, and i'm sure some have even different agendas, ...

I myself am not for power lvling.You learn alot from finding mobs your lvl with ppl your lvl If you join a power lvl guild they just take you to void and let you lvl fast but you don't learn much from that. I've heard some power lvl guilds even push members to do ranged for instance and I find that even worse. You can join the army if you want to be told what to do but in a game comon where is the fun in that?

Another important thing for me is the guildchat the guild needs to have an busy guild chat (I have left big guilds in the past because of a death guildchat) because that's what make ppl stick to a guild and also it opens up alot of shy ppl when they see oldies make an ass of themself the step for asking something in the chat gets smaller for them.

And rules if there is one thing I don't like it's guilds with to many rules, I like to be myself and do/say my own thing.

Probability vs Knowledge

In most other games your status is determined by luck. Repeating the same action over and over, for example killing monsters, visiting dungeons etc to get a superb reward. Example an epic sword with a drop chance of 0.03%

In Ryzom you have access to almost every resource. Your knowledge what to do with it is the key. Want an epic sword? Craft one. The borders are fading slowly though, with the Outpost Tools and Bonuses one has to repeat a certain action even in Ryzom, hoping for the 5% or 20% chance.


Item Binding vs Item Losing

Going hand in hand with the previous rare drops, in most games equipment or items like this bind to the character. Once aquired, always kept. To keep the players busy, new equipment must constantly be added.

Not so in Ryzom, everything you own vanishes over time. Got that epic sword? Use it and it is going to break sooner or later. This is also a logical consequence, otherwise nobody would need new stuff, nobody needs to pick up crafting.

Classes vs Freedom

Chosing a class restricts you in many areas, you have to live with the actions the game presents you for your chosen class. One would try different classes, starting from scratch each time. To keep players attracted new classes must be added over time.

In Ryzom you create your class. You customize each and every action, your way through the skill tree. Bored of one action? Follow another branch. You identify alot more with your character, because you only need the one. You invest more in your character.


Content vs Sandbox

It has been obvious by the previous chapters, but most mmos only work with a constant flow of new content. Gear, Classes, Maps, Monsters, you name it. It requires heavy resources to do so.

In Ryzom the players are the resource. Sandbox means you have to find your own goal, the game only presents you an environment and some motivators for example events. If you want a change, you as player must act. Shape your world.

Ryzom is different, because it is based on different design choices. Most people are used to the "common" MMO approach and find themselves confused in this open world. Many of those come to enjoy the freedom and new experience and for the others Ryzom just is not what they are looking for.

But the question is then:

How do we get more quality players?

Quality = Quantity * Sub = Ryzom alive and healthy....

+1 to Nymrys' question

Huek, All guilds are different. My guild which is now down to just me at the time, they other 4 are taking a bit of time off. None of us are lvl 250. After all the time I have been in game, I am only level 187 and that is just one thing. But my guild all we did was just explore and have fun oh yeah and die alot. Max dp kind of holds leveling down, especially when we didn't use Cats.

As Suboxide says, you have to find the guild that matches your style of playing.

I have four alts all of which are guildless as at the time that is the way I like it. I enjoyed Silan, infact still have one there.

I have always said, when you start Ryzom forget everything you have ever learned, cause it is like no other game. :)

maybe I will see you sometime in game.