English

My apologies, sincerely. That was indeed my fault, and I regret it, as I hate that, too.

To the rest, let us not start again and again. I don't see that it leads anywhere.

Not starting again just wondering if you actually had an answer to a previously unanswered question?

That attack was primitive, Virg. You do not know me, and I assure you that it will stay so. And your retort is meant to insult and you know it may and will hurt unless one hasn't but contempt for the insulter. I made a mistake with Elvanae and apologized for. It was never meant to hurt her.

As to your insistance: I had chosen to end this discussion as it is not productive anymore if it ever was. But as you insist so much:

I indeed said and stand by that word that among the CoC changes there are a lot which have caused more and lasting damage, mainly those about agro dragging, and also some about boss fights and PvP. As long as you kill your mektoubs in OP battles, it is not my business, I consider it filthy anyway, though I see the significance of mektoubs in such fights. In fact all that kind of misconduct has spread wide beyond OP wars, when I read FF's posting it nearly made me cry - indeed many of us have lost a lot for your fun, and sadly some may indeed have quit. So my understanding for your complaints is fairly limited.

Beneath that, there are lots of more urgent changes than ruling in camping. Read the Dev Roadmap, or the list of approved ideas, think of apartments, or advanced occupations.

I asked a bit around which guilds are doing most bosses in the eyes of several seasoned guild leaders, Kami as well as Karavan. Two were named by most, Asylum one of them. When you are complaining and speculating about campers depriving you of one or another boss, this seems to be somewhat greedy.

Ok you have the response you forced me to by your primitive insult. It is my last word here

My primitive insult was to get an answer not to insult. I am sorry if it did the latter. I have been asking that question for quite some time now and you had been dodging despite answering other things.

As for Asylum killing a lot of bosses, yes we do. I actually want camping to be illegal because it is an unfair advantage to all others in my eyes, not because it is depriving us of bosses. If you read my bosses post I would like some changes made to the game that would actually hinder Asylum and open up bosses to anyone in the region at any given time.

If you really want to stop me from camping preventative measures would be very simple. Make it so that when I log off for say a certain period of time of time that I reappear at a portal or back at my home city. If I reappear back my home city then my master would have to trek me from Yrk back to my camping spot. Chances are she would not find that an endevor worthy of her time.

Camper

Actually not a bad idea, codewise. I suppose people will bitch and moan, but in reality only those who can't afford teleports, aka bobs (see GoS dictionary) or Suboxide. While I do feel sorry for the first group, the second deserves it! Moving us to spawn or teleporter in the zone would remove this complaint, but might be a bit more of a pita to code.

[quote=Gasket (atys)]
Actually Camper, you should keep these ideas to yourself. If you post things here you be subjected to nothing but harsh criticism.

Rollocks

hmm...

I see much in the way of harsh feelings and accusations and counter-accusations and only a little light for all the heat. Threads like this one are the reason many people give me for why they don't like to use the Forums (which is a shame because then they miss out on Events and other fun stuff).

Part of the problem I see is that Daomei is thinking scientifically. [digression] Proof of an hypothesis or theory involves imagining and executing experiments which can demonstrate that it is false. In the abstract sense no theory based on observations can be proven "true", only "not disproven." On the other hand if it is "not disproven" after multiple clever attempts to do so, the likelihood that it is false becomes infinitesimal and such theories are widely regarded as "proven." [/digression]

That's in the scientific world. Sociology and social interaction are not a science. However, it does seem to me that if someone is saying that the devs should create a "solution to a problem," then it is up to them to show that a "problem" exists. It further seems to me that a few comments in a Forum poll are not the way to do it. (See above for the reason people avoid the Forums.) Even the idea of discussing it in the Faction meetings is better, though not perfect since not all people are in Factions (and the national Assemblies are miniscule).

I said a "few" comments: a few more than 50 people have voted. That's not a lot, and since this is in the EN section of the Forums, it's self selected for a minority of the players of Ryzom. As for better things to do with their time, more Events, fixing the still broken apartment issues, etc. seem to me to be of far higher priority than attempting to stop something that cannot be stopped. (If the materials are desirable enough, then people will figure out effective ways to get them.)

-- Bittty

This isn't the only thread against camping. People have stated they have not voted because the poll has a double question to it. You say things like fixing broken apartments are more important but how did you come to this conclusion? Can you show me a poll where more people have voted that they would like apartments fixed? If you can fair play.

Very easily, Virg.
If you read carefully, I said,No poll, no claim of authority, just my opinion.

-- Bittty.

I wasn't asking for a claim of authority just wondering how you came to that conclusion :)

You also claim posting in the forums isn't the way to go about asking for rule changes and not everyone would be involved in doing a faction meeting. So I'm curious how would you go about trying to get something changed? If there is a better route I'd like to take that.

Can we all calm down again, please?

If you slowly count to ten before posting, and before opening the umptieth thread about the same topic, then this isn't about which theories can be proven or not. This isn't about who has the most votes in a poll.

It's also not really about priorities here - because without having access to the actual server internal data (material & dapper & homin inflow and outflow, movemement patterns, tp usages, occupation usages, statistics on mission takers, pre-merge appartment usage patters including Rhybambels, etc) a player cannot really decide what's high and what's low on the prio list. Noone outside those who have that access can really judge what players want. We - the players - can make suggestions, but none of us can claim to be the wiser.

Maybe we get back to just proposing an idea, then refining it, and possibly deciding that those who discussed it (which always will be a minority of those actually playing) like it or not.

If you absolutely want to discuss if the camping theory can be proven or not, why don't you folks go ahead and open a philosphical thread on this? This would possibly allow the camping debate to go back to how we can make bosses more interesting for more players.

Thank you all.

I couldn't agree more Irfidel. The issue is when people try to assasinate ideas on forum threads even when they seem to agree the actual issue at hand is wrong. These people deviate the topic away from its true purpose and waste time. I am part to blame as I blindly follow these people into a discussion which shouldnt be had.

As for calm I am calm now :) Just asking honest questions about how I can go about putting my point forwards to the devs.

(And I am calm also as I write to Virg)

Real bugs are always first priority for any dev; just file a ticket or email support@ryzom.com . We know that this gets moderately fast response. (It's not relevant to this reply except for the fact that one of the reasons I regarded apartment fixes as high priority is that they are bugs. We were promised rapid fixes and they haven't happened yet.)

Forums are useful for discussions and brainstorming, and we know that the CSRs and devs read them, but for complex problems it is difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Not being a dev, but being reasonably certain that there aren't many of them just from looking for posts by and about them and looking at the Dev. Timechart app, I would suggest the following as a possible route to getting a dev's serious attention.

First, quantify and qualify the problem and be sure that it is real and not just perception. A fair amount of the argument here has been over that question. Quantifying, in the sense I mean, involves evaluating/estimating how much of a problem it is (Three players, ten players, 50 players?). Real, in the sense I mean, involves showing that it causes harm to the game or the majority of players, not just a few players.

Consider and brainstorm possible fixes. Your forum discussion over at http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/19027/1 is an excellent example of brainstorming that has not (crosses fingers) deteriorated.

Possible intermediate step: Write to support@ryzom.com and ask if the fixes are actually possible and what the devs would like in terms of support before they would consider them.

Select one or two fixes as likely to be implementable, then publicize them across all language forums asking for support in the form of comments in the threads. (This is where a carefully worded poll could help.)

Write to the devs with the proposal, including a headcount of the international community that favor and oppose the proposals.

That's my idea. YMMV etc.

Thanks bittty :)