hi Freddy =)
Totally agree, and I do think Ryzom's pvp fits this bill quite nicely. PVP in Ryzom is pretty much consensual. You either tag up, attend an OP war or go into the pvp enabled PR zones. All the materials you obtain from those zones can still be obtained in the non-PVP zones all the same (with the possible exception of a couple bosses and nameds).
This is the only part I disagree with. I don't feel like Ryzom is obliged to offer all the same rewards to all the different playstyles. I remember having this same discussion with Talk on a different thread, but about a different topic. For me all Ryzom is required to do is offer the sandbox. The different options/paths and the freedom to follow whichever one you want, whenever you like.
It kinda waters down the experience IMO if all paths offer the same rewards. Special tasks and gameplay styles should have unique rewards. Like how you need massive numbers to obtain marauder HA armor. Or how you need pvp to obtain OP mats.
Specially for pvp. If a game wants to have any sort of meaningful pvp it needs to either: a) have an awesome and fun to play combat system (ESO, BDO, etc) or b) have desirable and unique rewards for it. Preferably both, but I have yet to see that game emerge =P
lol totally agree with that. This seems to happen at least 9 out of 10 times. The fact that you cannot self heal effectively in Ryzom, plus the fact that AoE damage has a very limited cap on it, makes Ryzom pvp be _very_ influenced by numbers. The bigger zerg wins, usually (not always, but most of the time).
What most games do to balance faction pvp is do 3 factions instead of 2. That way even if one faction has considerably more numbers, the other 2 can team up temporarily and beat it. It helps to keep the balance. I feel Trytonist should have been this 3rd faction in Ryzom. Marauders more or less served this purpose last year when they teamed up with karas (and neutrals) and helped bring down the kamis, who had been dominant.
But maras have other problems as a faction, their lore, RP, gameplay, etc, which makes it a very restrictive faction and as such usually pretty small. Not only that, but for strict RPers, it makes no sense for maras to help anyone but themselves, so a lot of conflict and diverging opinions there. This is why I feel Trytonist would have been _perfect_ to be this 3rd balancing faction.
While I agree with that sentiment from a gameplay perspective, as a RPer I still prefer to keep within the lore and not have my kami guild for example help the karas today just because it'll be more competitive. But there's still neutral guilds switching sides depending on the battle. Most of the time neutrals stick with karas, true, but it's been known to happen a couple times at least. Or at the very least there's been times when neutrals refrained to help one side due to mercenary contracts and such.
As for "giving back OPs", if I remember correctly when that happened on Aris it was because the CSRs intervened and made the guild give the OPs back. Which I thought was pretty lame tbh, I don't think CSRs should intervene because a guild took over all OPs. Sure it sucks, but for a CSR to step in and force that guild to give the OPs back is to totally take the freedom away from the players.
Now that's an awesome idea! Sounds pretty fun, would be an interesting tournament event ^^
Fyrosfreddy
There's no reason the PvE and pvp contingents can't exists side by side as long as each other respects the others PoV ... as long as that PoV does not include anything non-consesual and forcing one view upon another's.
Totally agree, and I do think Ryzom's pvp fits this bill quite nicely. PVP in Ryzom is pretty much consensual. You either tag up, attend an OP war or go into the pvp enabled PR zones. All the materials you obtain from those zones can still be obtained in the non-PVP zones all the same (with the possible exception of a couple bosses and nameds).
4. Let's drop the fallacy that "one does not have to do PvP go in PvP areas in order to have full access to rewards in the game". Those that PvP and those that don't both pay the same subscription fees and therefore should be afforded the same opportunities for rewards.
This is the only part I disagree with. I don't feel like Ryzom is obliged to offer all the same rewards to all the different playstyles. I remember having this same discussion with Talk on a different thread, but about a different topic. For me all Ryzom is required to do is offer the sandbox. The different options/paths and the freedom to follow whichever one you want, whenever you like.
It kinda waters down the experience IMO if all paths offer the same rewards. Special tasks and gameplay styles should have unique rewards. Like how you need massive numbers to obtain marauder HA armor. Or how you need pvp to obtain OP mats.
Specially for pvp. If a game wants to have any sort of meaningful pvp it needs to either: a) have an awesome and fun to play combat system (ESO, BDO, etc) or b) have desirable and unique rewards for it. Preferably both, but I have yet to see that game emerge =P
6. Sitting on the sidelines what I have observed is that whenever one side dominates, people leave. First, those stuck losing all the time and being cut off from access to "uber" gear that, whether real or imagined, could put them in a position to better compete, get frustrated and go.
Those on the dominant side looking for excitement and a challenge just get bored. They start to leave in even greater numbers. Then when sides get even again, the underdog gets control and after a short period of satisfaction from having "turned the tables", there's nothing left but "Deja Vu all over again"
lol totally agree with that. This seems to happen at least 9 out of 10 times. The fact that you cannot self heal effectively in Ryzom, plus the fact that AoE damage has a very limited cap on it, makes Ryzom pvp be _very_ influenced by numbers. The bigger zerg wins, usually (not always, but most of the time).
What most games do to balance faction pvp is do 3 factions instead of 2. That way even if one faction has considerably more numbers, the other 2 can team up temporarily and beat it. It helps to keep the balance. I feel Trytonist should have been this 3rd faction in Ryzom. Marauders more or less served this purpose last year when they teamed up with karas (and neutrals) and helped bring down the kamis, who had been dominant.
But maras have other problems as a faction, their lore, RP, gameplay, etc, which makes it a very restrictive faction and as such usually pretty small. Not only that, but for strict RPers, it makes no sense for maras to help anyone but themselves, so a lot of conflict and diverging opinions there. This is why I feel Trytonist would have been _perfect_ to be this 3rd balancing faction.
As such, neutral guilds would wind up supporting one side in the morning and another in the afternoon. Entire guilds would toss RP aside and "switch factions" because ... '"always winning is almost as bad as always losing". Some guilds would take and OP and then "give it back" a few weeks later.
While I agree with that sentiment from a gameplay perspective, as a RPer I still prefer to keep within the lore and not have my kami guild for example help the karas today just because it'll be more competitive. But there's still neutral guilds switching sides depending on the battle. Most of the time neutrals stick with karas, true, but it's been known to happen a couple times at least. Or at the very least there's been times when neutrals refrained to help one side due to mercenary contracts and such.
As for "giving back OPs", if I remember correctly when that happened on Aris it was because the CSRs intervened and made the guild give the OPs back. Which I thought was pretty lame tbh, I don't think CSRs should intervene because a guild took over all OPs. Sure it sucks, but for a CSR to step in and force that guild to give the OPs back is to totally take the freedom away from the players.
In college we'd do 3 v 3 tournaments, where the losing team got to pick a player from the wining team who would swap teams, then the winner would choose one from the losing team. At the end of the day, most had to stop and think how many they won and how many they lost but it was fun and we were back doing it the next day..
Now that's an awesome idea! Sounds pretty fun, would be an interesting tournament event ^^
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"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."