English

.:Roleplay Metagaming:.

.: 1.0 Preface

There are plenty of activities in ryzom for us to do to spice up our time on Atys. You have weapons to hone, magic to study, foraging to expand, and crafting to improve. There are also occupations, or jobs, to do to earn some dappers, but not all activities are hard-baked into the game. One of the most prominent is roleplaying, which is enjoyed by, from what I have seen, a large part of the community. However, as of late I've noticed it's been plagued by a phenomenon, in regards to roleplay, known as "Metagaming." This is what I wish to discuss with you all.

.: 2.0 Disclaimer

While I may touch on PvP, I would like to point out that I'm not making this post because, admittedly, I got irritated at being killed in an open PvP zone while digging. It's an open PvP zone, and anyone who stays in it accepts the risk. It's the hiding behind roleplay that bugs me when justifying it and how the players go about the roleplay. I am also going to use examples I've encountered in game, however no names will be mentioned, except my own. Additionally, I am assuming that both parties involved have an intention of roleplaying or willing to roleplay when it arises.

.: 3.0 What is "metagaming?"

Let's clear this out of the way. In the roleplay sense, "metagaming" is when a player uses elements or knowledge that the character themselves would have no awareness or knowledge of in roleplay. It occurs most commonly between two parties that have little to no history or interaction with each other, but it can still happen with parties that do have some relation with each other.

For example, let's say we have two homins. One is named Charlie, and the other is named Veronica. In the world, Veronica has been studying magic secretly for a while and Charlie has never met her. Veronica's player has put that fact in her bio, which is a background of the character but isn't necessarily general knowledge in game. The first time they meet, Charlie knows about Veronica's magical abilities, only because the player read Veronica's bio and found out. Charlie the character did nothing to obtain or earn this knowledge, and any interaction involving that knowledge has now lost a majority of its significance that might've happened.

Let's use an example related to Ryzom. Wirroy's profile icon on the forums is that of the guild, ShadoWalkers, which is a known Marauder guild. With that knowledge, you can deduce Wirroy is a Marauder. Now, let's say you are a major roleplayer and you encounter Wirroy in game, in an open PvP zone. Your toon and Wirroy have never met or interacted, or have only seen glances of each other. Despite this, you attack Wirroy because you, the player, know that Wirroy is a Marauder from seeing his forum icon, or his guild icon in the game's General User Interface (GUI) above his head. Then you enter roleplay and say something like: "Ma-duk save your soul, marauder," and then you're on your way to do whatever it is you were going to do.

.: 5.0 Why is it a problem?

5.1) It's lazy. Very, very, lazy.

I will use the Ryzom-related example above.

You can literally sum it up in simple caveman speak: "Me, not Marauder, them, Marauder. Enemy Homin. Kill." For those of you who play Dungeons and Dragons, we have a term for that: "Muder Hobo," or someone who goes around just killing everything that they consider an enemy. It isn't interesting, and it can get old really fast. Not only does it not create any dialogue, or cool interactions, it often just destroys or denies the chance of anything like that happening.

This is the one I see the most; in the above example, someone from a non-marauder faction sees me digging, they chase me down and kill me. (Don't get me wrong, some marauders do it to non-marauders too.) Not much of a big deal to die in PvP combat, but when they use roleplay to justify it, it makes -zero- sense, especially if I have never had any relation of any kind to my assailant(s).*

I'm not saying don't defend yourself, or don't attack; what I'm saying is, if your intention is to roleplay, do not always begin with violence simply because you, as a player, have information that the toon in front of you is of an opposing affiliation. You might learn something interesting about their character, or something else might happen instead that'd pique your fancy.

*Though, in an assassination case, I suppose you wouldn't, but I mean just going around killing everyone.

5.2) It makes new meetings weird, and takes away any suprises.

This one happens mostly when two parties have never met.

You don't walk up to someone and know them immediately, do you? A smaller gripe I have is Atys apparently has a telepathic internet with no anonymity laws; everyone knows each others' names regardless. Unless they are a famous or well known figure, such as nation leaders, infamous figures, or well known trainers, how in the name of Jena/Ma-Duk/Atys/whatever deity your homin believes in, know a stranger's name and backstory? The answer? You don't. You, the player, does, because you can see their name floating above the homin's head and may read their bio, if they have any, but your toon, your character, does not.

This can easily be avoided with a simple introduction, or being within earshot when two individuals*, or when they yell their name after victory in single combat. Homins don't wear nametags with a biography book on their back like a program's data disc from Tron; at least introduce yourself when asked or when initiating a dialogue. The event team is very good with this; every event I've been to, they introduce the homin they're playing as before getting into what the event is about. It is a good example to follow.

*...And introducing yourself when entering the conversation, otherwise it's really awkward/lopsided when you know two people's names but they don't know yours.

5.3) Metagaming is a gateway to excuses & oversimplification.

Using the example found in point 5.1, metagaming makes it too easy to find excuses. Do not use it as a means to use RP as an excuse for anything OOC. It's not always easy to tell when someone is running around for non-RP reasons, like hunting bosses or looking for PvP OOC, and someone who might be looking for RP or is ready for it, but when you do encounter RP, don't jump the gun and use RP as an excuse because "yer faction is an enemy." Naturally hindsight is always perfect clarity, but if you're looking for RP opportunities, don't jump the gun because you as the player know something.

Additionally, when someone metagames another's toon's attributes, like affiliation, they tend to oversimplify their character to only those attributes. For example, let's oversimplify Wirroy: Marauder, Tryker, Evil (maybe?), Enemy 'cause not my faction. That's so boring; there is more to a person's character then the things they affiliate with. Some things are fact and easily observed, like Wirroy being a Tryker, but other attributes like Marauder, and maybe evil? You don't know, maybe he just seems evil because he tends to be chaotic and he is a Marauder? An Enemy? Your character won't know until your character knows he's of an opposing affiliation via primary or secondary source in RP. Even a short dialogue might reveal that. Roleplayers who are serious tend to take time to flesh out their homins; they aren't black and white characters. If you are RP'ing, get to know them at least a little before making hasty judgments; try not to use the knowledge that you, as a player, know when roleplaying.

.: 6.0 Suggested Solution

In general, put some effort into your roleplaying and try to eliminate bad habits. Create a clear line between Out of Character and Roleplay to avoid confusions.

If you're of the roleplaying sort, open dialogue with other people's characters. Poking them with a sword until they are down because you, the player, know something and then starting up a chat in character is shallow and cheap. All you've done is create a very poor first impression. Whenever I see people do this, my first impression is they are nothing more than a common bandit, especially if they do this repeatedly. Initiate a dialogue IRP, and if you find out they're a danger to you, or some other reason, then attack. Even a quick "Hello, I don't like your tattoos," is better than just getting killed by a total stranger who only did it because the player behind the character in question knows they're of a different faction, or because they're looking for PvP and they use knowledge like that to hide behind RP. Here's another good example: Let's say you saw Wirroy come out of a Marauder Zinuakeen, within a reasonable distance*, then you can poke them with a sword and explain after that you saw them come out of the Zinuakeen so they concluded you were a marauder. That makes sense, killing someone with your blade then saying you know they're marauder without a good reason is shallow RP.

Second, introduce your character to another if they are encountered, or when asked. This makes exchanges less awkward and you'll spend less time looking for the correct pronoun to use because your character does not know their name. Also refrain from using any information that your character would not have initial awareness or any relevant knowledge of another homin, such as their guild, their health bar, their bio, their fame numbers**, skill levels***, affiliation, etc. You can learn these things through interaction and time with another homin. Leading to the next point...

Not all characters are not two-dimensional or black and white, heck, I'd reckon -most- characters are not like that. I become sad when people just go for the throat all the time because they oversimplify someone's toon because of information gathered out of character. If your intention is roleplay, learn more about them as they learn about your character, you might be suprised. Even if you find out they are of an opposing faction or an enemy, sometimes it might be more interesting to keep opening dialogues with them rather than cut it short and initiate combat. Perhaps by the time it gets dicey, your character's opinion of the other side may have changed, whether for better or worse. Wouldn't you agree it's more interesting that way?

* In my opinion, ~50 meters is acceptable in a normal light level; up to ~65m in high, and ~30m in low. I have my game maxed out and through testing, that's what I've found. (Forest for normal, PR/Desert Night for low, Lakes/Desert Day for high) Beyond that, it's hard to see.
** Fame restrictions like "Matis above 0" or "Positive Fame" is ok, but, don't try and exclude someone by placing ridiculous fame requirements to try and metagame their alignments.
*** As a measure of power; the numbers are meaningless to a homin in character.

.:Other Metagaming Gripes:.

.: 7.0 Special Rules

Let's say your guild has an unspoken roleplay rule where homins have their guild emblem on their armor and clothing. Some close guilds have the same or a similar rule. Keep special rules like that within your circle, never assume or force a stranger, like Wirroy who does not do that, to follow or begin following that rule. The only character you truly have control over is your own. I do not control anyone else but Wirroy and any alternate characters I have. If they have not expressly described that about their appearance somewhere, then do not assume it.

Things like -this- is where metagaming is OK. The game isn't perfect, so you can't display things like that. An appearance option like that requires the player to express it somewhere, like in their bio. However, do not adapt, per say, the guild icon above someone's head as "wearing their guild's emblem on their armor." That's cheap, as you can't hide that icon without leaving the guild, or having everyone else turn off the option of seeing other player's guild icons, which will never happen.

.:tl;dr:.

- Metagaming is using information obtained OOC or that of which your character would have no awareness or relevant knowledge of.
- Please refrain from using such knowledge for easy roleplay; make an effort.
- Please refrain from using such knowledge when meeting or talking about a homin, unless in/famous, or somewhat familiar, within reason.
- Please refrain from using such knowledge to instantly know a homin IRP or accidentally simplify someone's character IRP.
- Keep special rules within your own RP circles and do not force them onto strangers/newcomers.

.:P.A.Q:.

Potentially Asked Questions

1) You used PvP a lot in your examples. What do you consider RP PvP and OOC PvP?

It's a lot of opinion, this one, but my main issue is when people try to RP their way out of justifying PvP with no RP before the fighting, or a good reason, such as a Karavan warrior seeing Wirroy step out of a Zinuakeen. But this is my answer:

RP PvP: PvP in Events, Event Wars, PvP as a result of RP Dialogue, good justification seen above (within reason), supernodes* & OP Battles.*

OOC PvP: Running around killing people without a good justification (if any) or for fun, killing others because you're tagged/in open PvP zone to take bosses, supernodes* & OP Battles.*

*I wrote OP Battles and Supernodes in both categories. That's because I find they're kind of a hybrid. I treat them as conflict between the factions (RP), while they are also governed by OOC & other IRP elements. You set a time and place for OPs (both RP & OOC), then the two factions gather and fight as enemies over it (Battle over Land/Mats, RP); same with supernodes, except with the players knowing when they happen all the time and instantly knowing what materials are ready. You might say: "Well, bosses are fought over a lot too! Isn't that RP PvP?" Yeah, well, OPs and Supernodes don't happen every Atysian day like bosses do, so, no. Not to mention, the majority of bosses are not in open pvp zones. Hard to pvp over a boss when nearly 100% of the time people detag for a boss. Only way to steal a boss like that is if the first team fails and enough time has elapsed for the boss to unlock.

2) You consistently stated that metagaming should be avoided, but then you gave an example of where it's ok. Can you clarify?

When it's alright to Metagame: Things specifically expressed by the player that it is OK to use such information about their character. The "guild emblem on armor" example found under 7.0 would be something the player would have to specifically describe about their toon, or that they follow that kind of rule because their guild does. It is not alright to assume that all characters in RP wear their guild's emblem on their armor.

When it's not alright to Metagame: Using GUI elements for, or to find out RP reasons, like guild icons, skill levels, health/stamina/sap/focus bars, a character's bio with information not expressly given permission to use as general knowledge, etc.

Where it might be confusing: The Roleplay section of the forums. Read stuff very carefully; if you're not involved or don't really have a way to get involved, most likely not.

3) You use a lot of historic information in your own roleplay works on the forums. How do you explain that as not metagaming!

To put it simply (oh the irony, ha. ha.), I fashioned Wirroy as a sort of historian, like his mother whose name will not be revealed in this section of the forums. It explains his lackluster combat abilities, harvesting and crafting, allowing his fantastic intellect, speculation, and memory to shine through. Additionally, since he's a Tryker, he has a chaotic (could also be described as mischievous) nature, a drive to explore the Prime Roots, and belief in freedom of will and thought. I believe these traits represent and justify him well.

I can't think of any more potential questions to ask and answer.

I understand this is a very heavily opinionated sort of topic, so please discuss in a civil manner; I would like to hear opinions and thoughts.

So, if my RP is to be mean to everybody and aggrodrag crafters, I'm just dull roleplayer?

And if I single people and tease them systematically using OOC knowledge, maybe I'm just mean person and hiding behind roleplay?

This makes sence, I better up my roleplay skills. Advicing this to others too, who are doing the same.

Let's try, maybe more people would get interested!

((OOC: I proudly wear not only the crest of my Guild, Phaedreas Tears, but the badge of my goals, Ranger Aspirant. You all can assume that from here on in.))

Metagaming is assuming that your character knows without interaction, that PT is a pacifistic neutral guild and that RA means that I'm neutral as all heck.

On the other hand, there are levels of RP. It is not RP vs. HRP, but a continuum between the two. In RP terms, you may have seen my postings on the message boards in the towns, or just heard me musing upon the natural history of Atys in the Rialto that is Universal Chat. These are (imho) in-between interactions.

((OOC: If you want to indulge in any sort of complex RP, my feeling is that you should chat, player to player to make sure that the interaction is consensual. e.g. ((ooc: "Grimfarch is probably going to think that Wirroy is weak and not really connected to the grim reality of Atys. Do you want to play an ineraction on this theme?)) This is especially true in venues where there are on-lookers who may be unsophisticated with respect to RP.))

Just a few dappers worth to add to the discussion.

Hello Wirroy,

I agree what you say. Another simple example of metaroleplay is when a homin call you by your name despite he never met you before ! but, our name is above the head... (and it can be removed for ourself in configuration, I know. But then it becomes too hard to recognize people you should know)

But we cannot force a change in players behavior. Just do your way, and maybe other players will understand then imitate you because they liked it or thinks it make sens. (or also by opening a discussion about it like you've just done ^^)

About foraging while tagged, well, you can untag if you think it's not normal beiing attacked on sight can't you ?
Then, if someone think your are suspicious (at first, probably because of your guild logo but...) and approach you "hey! who are you !?" and if the conversation becomes angry, turn on the tag.

For you, having tag turned on is a invitation for RP, but I think also a personal challenge, or even a guild challenge. But it can be interpreted by other as a kind of provocation : "look, you are so rubbish that I can come tagged for foraging in your region without fear" (which might be true ^^).

About metaroleplay, you can also wonder how a NPC guard can recognize you and attack on sight ! Maybe you imagine something yourself to justify it... You can imagine the same when you are beeing attacked without any rp realistic reason by a PC.

Your words also point out the different way players think about RP. For you (and for me too) the nuances your character have are important, and also the dialog interactions you may have with other, even enemies. For some other players what's more important is to behave as your faction ask to, event if the way you do it is not very realistic. Something on a more global scale, but important too for preserving the faction game (I mean, not all becoming friends).

How about using an api-key to make sure that homins with just the right fame are welcomed to an event to overcome the nuisance to've to deal with finding out about ones past history and political standing, out of convenience... would we that count as metagaming too?

As for the actual opening post: I'll assume you wear your guilds badge somewhere on your clothes/armour, yet I'll not assume knowing your name or past history with the exception of maybe rumours that had word going around, but those are just that, if at all,... rumours.

It's, quite franky, mostly a problem with roleplayers pretending to be good at what they do because they're following the mainstream-common without further own expenses in finding out more about a specific character, in-character.

Then again, especially when it comes to PvP-elements of the game, people tend to see a member of a guild attacking them and therefor assume all members of that guild to be the same, when inRP they might not even knew who just turned the bark over their heads. It goes both ways here to be honest, those attacking others like to hide behind the weirdest roleplay-reasons too but expect to be treated fairly in return. It's hard to say when someone saw PvP as an inRP action or just an ooc one.

If your RP personality is mean and rude, and you make it clear you're roleplaying that kind of character, I do not think that is dull, initially; in fact it could be interesting. It is up to you to keep that kind of personality interesting, otherwise it might become dull.

However, your suggestion of aggro-dragging is going to break the current Code of Conduct. Do it once, it could be seen accidental, but if it's clear you're aggro-dragging onto people for the sake of aggro-dragging, I do not think people will agree that you're "roleplaying." That's more likely to be seen as harassment, and you can't hide behind RP to justify that.

As for the teasing, well, I can't speak for others, but if you tried that on me, it wouldn't be taken very seriously.

If uni chat is RP, those are some blazingly fast izams. Like, teleporting telepathic izams. But even if it is considered RP (imho, it isn't to me), it isn't face to face, and there is seldom intimate conversations or interaction that might be best left to more private conversations. Uni chat wouldn't be the best place for those things, so getting to know a character better may be more difficult. Additionally, uni chat is a whole soup of conversation, so RP and OOC would be mixed together, creating confusion. Also, I do not think the CSRs would approve of people using the Uni chats for RP...

I think I need to clarify a few things regarding this statement.

I do not turn pvp tag on as an invitation for RP, in fact, mine is off nearly all the time. If conflict in RP will happen, I will enable it, but otherwise it's off. However, in places like Gate of Obscurity, one of two PR regions where f2p can dig supremes, I cannot disable it. I used PvP in my examples a lot, but please do not assume such things.

My issue with the RP justification for PvP, is people use the exact things you mentioned. "Is a player's PvP icon on? If so, then they are provoking, or challenging my guild or person." Because you used the PvP tag as the basis for your reasoning IRP, which is an element of the game and GUI, you are acknowledging that your character somehow has relevant knowledge of this, which, they don't, because it's a game element. Do homins in world see the information above other homins' heads like players do? No. That's what I mean by metagaming. People see that, and try to RP it as justification; jumping the gun and starting combat before even attempting a dialogue. Only after they attack the person in question, do they say something, if anything.

Now, if a homin is trying to provoke via PvP tag, like you suggested, and they -incorporate- RP into it instead of trying to justify it -with- RP using elements like PvP tag, Guild icon, etc., I think it's OK. For example: Let's say Wirroy is in the desert with PvP Tag on. You pass by him and he starts an IRP conversation egging you on to attack him via insults or something. That is a good RP justification for PvP, not "I felt challenged because you have PvP tag on," which incorporates an element of the game that a homin character technically has no awareness of.

If there's anything I want someone to take out of this topic, is while I may not be able to completely change a way someone RPs, please consider this:

If both are willing to RP, treat a stranger how your character would, or according to any relation that you've developed, and try to refrain from using those game elements we players can see IRP. Yes, there are stereotypes for homins and affiliations, but don't make quick judgements on those alone. Use the game elements as a Roleplay Hook instead of using them in roleplay to justify an action. Use a player's guild icon to start an interesting conversation if you, the player, knows it's of an opposing affiliation. Use PvP tags to start some beef with another homin (like my above example). Use your alignment as justification for RP combat when the time is right, such as finding out the other homin has that affiliation, not on sight like an NPC. Our homins aren't programmed to attack on sight like an NPC checking your fame, we're players that pour our heart and soul into our characters. Let's act like it and show it.

In roleplay, treat homins like people. Not a sum of their guild affiliation, their homin's affiliation, whether they have PvP Tag or not, their levels, their fame etc. Homins are more than that. They have unique personalities, relationships, skills beyond the skills the game lays out, mannerisms, jobs, ideals, dreams, goals, and more.

Also, people treat the factions as set in stone, and completely abstract. Remember Homins make up the vast majority those factions (from what we see), and they have the same traits listed above, like all characters. Not every Marauder is a bloodthirsty near-bandit, not every Kami and Karavan follower is 100% unquestionably devout, not every Ranger may believe completely in self-defense only. Some Marauders have different or more goals than conquest and anarchy, some Kami/Karavan doubt and question their beliefs and search to answer and fix the flaws, perhaps some Rangers are sworn to self-defense only because they know they have an insatiable love for battle and wish to contain it. There is more to a faction than considering all others enemies; you do not have to work with other factions 24/7, and disagreements are OK, but don't treat them as black and white.

The game isn't perfect, and it would take a lot of effort to program a NPC to show all of those things dynamically, so let's make our homins act the part. Create a clear line between OOC actions and RP, so the curtain of the stage isn't torn to pieces trying to figure out if it needs to open or close.

I do not believe this is something that should be addressed with a systematic solution; players generally respect the fame requirements with events. Besides, within events, we already set broad fame requirements, and I do not think they should get any more specific than that. (i.e. "Anyone with positive Fyros fame") By doing that, you already get a little background on the homins attending, like having a friendly or cordial background with the Fyros and by attending, are showing interest in the events of the Fyros. For the homins that don't attend, the possibilities are too numerous to assume, both IRP and OOC.

Next, we should never assume anything about any other homin, IRP. What do you do if they don't respect your assumption? Are you going to try and force it on them? Are you going to bargin with them and create a furthur disruption in the flow of things trying to get them to adopt that assumption? What I suggest is don't assume anything about homins outside your circle of acquaintences IRP, especially physical appearance beyond what you actually can see in game, until you get a good basic understanding of a character. This aligns with the third point of yours that I quoted, what I mean by "lazy..."

...People make all these assumptions, and act on them, without knowing if these things are entirely true or false. I agree that RP'ers tend to follow some mainstream behaviour because it's easy, but I'm suggesting that people start breaking away from doing that. Of all the RP sessions, no matter how long or short, I've been in, straying away from mainstream, considering the situation and reacting appropriately in character, and putting some effort in makes them more dynamic and entertaining to watch and participate. I want to see more RP like that in game.

Going back to your point about something like an API key. Maybe we could have an RP Tag to show that we are willing to RP? But I do not think it would change much in the short or long term.

To be fairly honest with you, I've yet to see any roleplay really in this game that isn't either set up or organized through some sort of event. There sure are a few people who do roleplay outside of those restricted environments, but they're a few in within.
The roleplaying happening in Ryzom is leagues away from the roleplay done in other games like GuildWars, World of Warcraft and Black Desert Online. On the bright side, our actions in Ryzom may or not have consequences on the overall game, which is a nice niche to've.
When in doubt, with Ryzom, always assume the other party is ooc. Because that is most likely the case when not attending an event.
RP-flags would be charming though.

Wirroy -- As far as UNI is concerned, I have done substantial RP interactions in UNI (of the abstract discussion of the flora, fauna and other natural history of Atys -- not interpersonal RP) without any issue.

Yes UNI mixes RP and HRP with blithe abandon. I am comfortable with that. Your mileage obviously varies.

I am not saying that you are wrong. By and large, I believe that you are very much correct. However, there are different levels of RP, and none of them are wrong if the parties involved are playing at the same level.

My two dappers worth, YMMV

Sorry, mind elaborating with a little more tact? Do you mean to say my experience is lacking? If so, I'm not saying you're wrong (because I don't RP in uni chat) but, I do think you could've said that with more tact.

Hmmm. I was extending a common idiom (common in EN at any rate). If it came across as tactless, I apologize. Allow me to explain.

"Your mileage may vary" (also abbreviated as YMMV) is a phrase used in automobile advertisements to indicate that how you drive the car (extended to "how you do things") affects the mileage (extended to "results").

It was not a comment on your experience, or right or wrong (as I clearly stated in the next sentence), but an expression that there are different ways of doing things.

Bittty, why do you mark parts of your post as OOC when the other parts are also clearly OOC?

Probably force of habit. In this case, what I meant was that it was not directly related to the argument/topic at hand.