IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Sorry Google translate
Since the imbalance of the factions , even from some questionable alliances , one of which inspired many bark content , war outpost no longer exists.
To revive these wars , we must rebalance the forces involved
Common sense does not work , either on super nodes or even events (see event Marauder ) factions play together and destroy any chance of seeing build a boring gameplay.
I therefore propose an artificial rebalancing forces wars outpost by limiting the number of players can take part in a defense outpost .
The attacking guild tag OP determines when the number of potential supporters with (to avoid anoint anoint ) a bonus of a team ( 9 players ) for the defense if it so desires .
This will create small factions of the game, and big always reign over the resources of OP : once the outpost taken , nothing prevents large factions re-attack the OP , as it is they this time if the attackers , they profittent their surplus to crush defense.
It could give a little atmosphere and maybe make you want to play a bit more "RP" avoiding alliances that kill this game that I love.

I see in the declaration of war , an additional field with the number of teams or homins committed ca avoid that crafty flags OP to artificially increase the number of potential supporters , knowing that attackers can turn it seems adverse homins .

So you want to prevent aliances to be formed as really big forces I can understand that a bit but I see one big problem again and that's ppl could just drop guild for a day join the attacked guild and defend with them.
Easy to do it and we already have ppl joining the guild under attack to take ammo from the guildhall so we would just see more ppl joining the guild under attack

No, the attackers choose the number they will. They have no interest to inflate their numbers.

I have just gone through both pages of messages on this topic in the FR forums, using Goo-trad and correcting some typographical errors and translating game terms to get decent results. (Adding slang and typographical errors to Goo-trad is a recipe for Babel.)

My impression is that Yricl desires to put more role-play and more frequent turnover into OP battles, not just to downplay the force of the (currently) dominant Faction. The proposal (as I have interpreted it after translation) is that the attacking force specifies the number of homins they will be attacking with and that determines how many homins the defense will bring. It is *not* a proposal to limit the attackers and defenders to a single guild each.

Let us say they are attacking with 20 homins. The original proposal would allow for the defenders to bring 30 homins (20+10). if the attacking force is able to achieve the threshold, then the second round of the battle would see the 30 defenders attacking the original 30 attackers in the second round.

My personal opinion is that this detail works for small numbers, but fails for large numbers and that a percentage advantage rather than a numeric advantage would be better, but that is a detail to be worked out later if the proposal is accepted.

Of course if the original owners lost the OP at low numbers, the dominant force could bring a 100 homin attack against the same OP as soon as the cool-down period was over and the small force would not be able to raise that number of defenders, so I really don't see this working in the long run.

In addition, I cannot see how to program this even if it is desirable.

Yricl, I hope that I have not added confusion.

-- Bittty

Thanks, it's the idea

i know op's need something but for me this isn't it. Would rather see monthy defences against npc's with guild alone so guilds would have to atleast work to keep it. Or maybe add in guild missions after all these years guildpoints still isn't being used for a thing (what was the original idea?).
But limiting ppl in defending their op would not be the way to go for me sorry what if attacker come with 8ppl then defending guild gets 18?, what if your guild has 25ppl online at that time then you need to tell your own guildies they can't defend their own home?? 
I can also ppl not being invited to the battle being there heal soaking and maybe agro dragging ammo mat trading and so on, would be a mess. (and reporting all those wouldn't make it an op anymore but just a big ticket fest for csr's to read trough, the idea is you should never have the need to ticket something atleast thats how i try to play the game)

surely a best translation from my post by Skoma

Since the unfairness between factions - or since some collaboration between factions should I say? - one of the most interesting parts of the game has disappeared : Outpost wars.
To relaunch those OP wars, we have to re-equilibrate the game between factions.
As seen before, during supernodes or events (such as mara event recently), factions play together and destroy any kind of interesting gameplay.
What I offer you is an artificial re-equilibrating of powers on Outpost wars by limiting the number of players able to take part of the Outpost's defense.
The attacking guild would choose the ammount of defenders able to play with a bonus of 1 team (9 players) for the defense if needed.
This would allow little factions to create a gameplay, and the big ones to still own the mats: Once the OP is taken, nothing forbids big factions to re-attack the OP and take it back.
This would bring a "RP-like" way to Outpost wars, some fun, and would also avoid alliances and collaborations between factions that kill the game in my opinion.
It could be possible by adding a new blank - during the war declaration - with the number of teams/homins involved, it would avoid that retards flag on OP to increase the number of defenders, according that attackers can kick out unwanted homins.

I think this is by far the best suggestion to get OPs rolling again.

+1

Having offered my assistance (such as it was) to getting this idea put forth, I feel I must disagree with Yricl's assumption that this will invigorate OP contests.

Yes, it will allow smaller groups to attack OPs and have a chance of success. However, as he points out himself, there is nothing to keep an Alliance from attacking in force and taking the OP back with a large threshold, so the Alliances will still have the materials.

Given that, why would anyone bother to attack who did not think that they had a chance of holding it for enough time to actually harvest some good stuff? It is only the level 150 and higher OPs that have a chance of producing q250 materials, and that chance is low except for the level 250 OPs (which is why they are the ones that get fought over). Except for obtaining OP mats there is no reason to own them, hence no reason to attack them. This is true now and the proposed change won't alter that.

I can think of a few things to add to this, or just to propose, that might do more.

First -- lengthen the immunity period between attacks and make that increased length inversely related to the threshold level achieved by the attackers in the first round or to the number of attackers. (i.e. you get a longer cooldown if you "barely" take the OP or if you take it with fewer people than you do if you take it by overwhelming the defense). This would complement Yricl's proposal, but clearly it would have to be carefully balanced. What it does is give an incentive in terms of harvested materials for people to attempt taking an OP with a smaller force.

Second -- make the low level outposts useful again by allowing overcrafting with lower level OP mats. There is no particular use for a q150 armilo tool, or greslin or erigos pick, or a q100 vedice sword. If we can use q50 armilo from Psykopla Knoll and have a chance at a q250 tool, that OP will become desirable. I think this is a good idea in general, but it could be combined with Yricl's suggestion. (Again, balance issues would need to be addressed.)

My humble proposal would be to limit OP wars to guild members, and additionally enforce a two-week cooldown for guild changing. Maybe add a certain upper limit for wars, so guilds could fill in some empty spots. Allow up to 25 people total to form the defending or offending side.

Guild hopping is not as easy as it sounds. Many people would find their nation fame cut off when joining another guild with different nation alignment. Receiving guild has to be wary of the newcomer if they're stuck together for weeks. Those who leave their guild lose privileges which they might not receive in the new guild (being a high officer, etc). Hopping back and forth would not be seen with keen eyes by those who adhere to strict role.

Still, even with hopping considered, it only gets you this far. A favorite tactic is declaring war simultaneously on 2-3 OPs at once, and hoping to split the force. If this proposal goes in effect, there isn't a "faction" war anymore, you don't get an outpouring of 60 kamis that retake all 4 OPs in phase 2. If all the good players flock to Guild 1 then you can attack Guild 2 tomorrow, and they can't defend as well.

The way I see it, if we keep it like this some people will leave (or left already), if you change it, others may want to leave.. not sure which is best on the long run.

But I agree, this could work out, at least.... for some factions/guilds to have a fair chance to fight.. and will probably prove that when is too much quantity, quality doesnt matter, like it is right now.

But with this new solution, we could get a fair fight, at least when a smaller faction/guild attacks the big alliance(s).

+1 from me.

I like the idea in every way except it has one drawback. For many people PvP is quite shut off. They do not know about it much and don't have much of a chance to get into it. OP wars first introduced me to PvP and I haven't stopped fighting since. Tagged PvP is very "elitest" in the fact you need high level skills, sap recharges and weapons if you want to stand a chance of stayling alive for more than a minute, the same is starting to be true for SNs.

The idea is a good one but with so few PvPing I don't like the idea of closing PvP off to normal players even more. If there were more pvp events that could involve everyone (like the nine mektoubs) then I would support some OP wars being fought like this.

Just to add because numbers were mentioned: My recent views on OP wars is that they haven't so much been decided by numbers but more by tactics pure and simple.

Putting limits on any gameplay part goes against sandbox design of the game. Locking out players by limiting the number of participants is wrong. That way OP battles will quickly turn into sort of elite content. Because it's clear to me only those with multimasters in combat skills, PvP jewels and PvP weapons could attend. And if you think it isn't, give it another thought. While we at it, we could go and rename OP battles to Atysian League of Champions or something like that. People, willing to attend, would be turned off, either because they haven't met requirements ("Oh, you have only 2H axe skill at 250 and no PvP jools? You suck."), or because there is number limit ("We had room only for 20 and it all has been taken.").

There were similar proposals aimed to make OP battles Guild vs Guild only. This change has two major flaws. First, it's the one i have described above. Second is guild hopping. And I can assure you, that flaw would be exploited almost every time there is an OP battle upcoming. There is a two-week cooldown for guild changing? Fine, call your friends three weeks prior the battle you have sheduled. Besides, it's again creating a lockout: my buddy started playing Ryzom and wants to join my guild, but he can't for at least two weeks, because the guild is going to war. Way to retain new players, dear Ryzom. Fame is not a problem, unless you really want to keep those fancy racial titles - drop citizenship, kill some fame by doing missions for tribes that are hostile towards given race. Can be done in a day or two. Losing my HO position? Whatever, i join another guild for battle, not to steal from their GH, and i'll quit and return back in my original guild once the battle is over.

WOOOOOW A wonder has happend I got to agree 100% with Thumleweed (who ever tought this would happen)

All his points are valid Guild hopping would be a national sport and if you limit it then atleast the attacker would be in favorism since he would be able to plan the inviting of ppl (I know ppl would see this but they would not know what op they gonna att).
The seccond point would be the the limiting factor and there Thumbleweed is correct aswell op wars would turn into 20 launcher VS 20 launcher new players would have to grind 3years to maybe get a spot on the op team if they are lucky and guilds that force train their b**bs would be able to get all ops.

=> This whole idea would just change the owners of op's from ppl that work and help eachother to ppl that wanna be seen as the strongest. Wich is sad actually. (atm it's still ppl helping each other that get the fruits of their factions but if this changes then it's goodbye ryzom)

Again not.
Small levels can play.
An example: today.
Marauders attack Ginti with 4 teams, certainly if kami their greed will usually favor with 250 levels and lose the Ginti (they come with small or large levels, we will win).
After the waiting period, they attack with 100 (as usual), they win the Ginti.
This will not change the possession of Ginti except that we will know at least a good war.

Encore une fois non.
Les petits levels pourront jouer.
Prenons un exemple : aujourd'hui.
Les maraudeurs attaquent le Ginti avec 4 équipes, certes si les kamis à leur habitude favorisent la cupidité viendront qu'avec des niveaux 250 et perdront le Ginti (qu'ils viennent avec des petits levels ou des gros, nous vaincrons).
Après la période d'attente, ils attaquent avec 100 (comme à leur habitude), ils gagneront le Ginti.
Celà ne changera rien à la possession du Ginti sauf que nous connaitrons au moins une belle guerre.