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should camping be allowd, or should some change be made
yes
Atys: Alassea, Alric, Beepe, Bones, Camper, Feylin, Indigo, Kaetemi, Rollocks, Snarfster, Stitch, Sunmonkey, Tinial		 13 (4)
19.4%
no
Atys: Aikoon, Asmiye, Ataxie, Binarabi, Bucshotz, Cramer, Elikwasa, Elvanae, Evilar, Exodus, Feylin, Grasswind, Irfidel, Lacuna, Lightweight, Loirinha, Lumidragon, Ratastantan, Rikutatis, Shvet, Slorforn, Stitch, Suboxide, Tantalos, Tegus, Thahuliga, Veg, Victoriacamper, Zehrix, Zhoi, Zilon		 31 (4)
46.3%
Otro
Atys: Aleeskandaro, Alric, Anzhanto, Arfur, Astarth, Bambamseven, Bitttymacod, Casy, Feylin, Fishgod, Hayt, Ishamael, Jarnys, Kalean, Laofa, Lilsis, Meagon, Ruhen, Stitch, Tantalos, Thahuliga, Victoriacamper, Yuritau		 23
34.3%
Abstenerse 11
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#36 Añadido por Daomei 1 década hace [en] 

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Yes Virg, doubt is one of the primary sources of scientific progress, dissecting belief and wishful thinking. It is a recommendable practice to doubt the own premises in particular. I try to weigh any argument and proposal before judging about it. So please specify what was unscientific with my reasoning.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#37 Añadido por Virg 1 década hace [en] 

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People are posting saying they have seen campers. This is definite. You disagree with them and say you "doubt" it happens. A definite vs a doubt. I am sure you must have a quote or two about that?

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#38 Añadido por Daomei 1 década hace [en] 

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Ok. Tell me how you do tell a camper from an idler. And tell me why so many boss spots are free from both, campers and idlers, though a camping epidemic is alleged.

I do not doubt that somebody says to have seen a camper, in most cases he may have seen somebody, in some of them his suspicion may have been founded while in others not. In many cases the camper spotting may even have been hearsay. There are studies about propagation of rumours. In this case much words are made around very thin evidence.

A word to Elvanae about my naivity: Yes I believe that the waste majority of all players, no matter whether Kami, Kara, Neutrals, or Marauders, whether Asylum, SA, Seve Noire, or any other, are good-willing, love the game and hate cheating and unfairness. And that is the base one should work along, not starting blame games and pillory, inciting hatred and resentment, and splitting along guild or alliance lines.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#39 Añadido por Virg 1 década hace [en] 

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People log alt campers on and off when they want to check a boss.. Have you actually been listening to a word anyone says? People have said this many many times.

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A glimpse into Virg's life
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NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#40 Añadido por Daomei 1 década hace [en] 

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How do you prove that allegation? I did not see such popping up and down players around boss locations during my patrols, and I look at people I meet, in every region, I frequently do /who (have a macro for).

I did not deny the technical possibility of such, but it would only work efficiently with heavy scripting and botting, and would not even be camping in a strict sense. Botting and scripting are already illegal, no reason to emphasize camping as outlawing camping would not change anything under respect of such practice.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#41 Añadido por Virg 1 década hace [en] 

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There is such a thing as trust you seem incapable of. Such as trusting many people who have even seen alts log on and off right in front of them. You don't ever check all the boss spawns so I won't expect you to have seen alts. Stop harping on about how you have ever seen any alts camping when you never actually go check boss spawns its getting tiring.

Why does such a thing need scripting? You can log on 4 characters easily at the same time with minimal effort. You can do this quite easily with 12 alts and check the 3 regions most important to you within 5minutes.

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Syndicate's Page (Shuriiken here)
A glimpse into Virg's life
Thug life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#42 Añadido por Avvy 1 década hace [en] 

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Virg (atys)
There is such a thing as trust you seem incapable of. Such as trusting many people who have even seen alts log on and off right in front of them. You don't ever check all the boss spawns so I won't expect you to have seen alts. Stop harping on about how you have ever seen any alts camping when you never actually go check boss spawns its getting tiring.

Why does such a thing need scripting? You can log on 4 characters easily at the same time with minimal effort. You can do this quite easily with 12 alts and check the 3 regions most important to you within 5minutes.

Problem with trust is it can't be scientifically proven, a bit like faith.

Don't know about now, when boss camping it was more than just one person from a guild involved and several bosses where being watched for.

#43 Añadido por Virg 1 década hace [en] 

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Faith is more dependent on a belief that something is real rather than seeing it first hand.

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________________________

Guild Leader of Syndicate
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A glimpse into Virg's life
Thug life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#44 Añadido por Avvy 1 década hace [en] 

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Virg (atys)
Faith is more dependent on a belief that something is real rather than seeing it first hand.

Is trust really that much different?

You trust someone under the belief that they're trust worthy. The difference is that trust is formed from what you know about someone or what you believe you know about someone, you can easily get it wrong.

Although we are straying from the topic now.

#45 Añadido por Binarabi 1 década hace [en] 

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At next kami meeting Virg we need the input from other guilds so it is not just a small number arguing stuff with Daomei.
Homins who are camping and feel they have been forced into this in order to get a "favoured" boss have seen the other campers
It is like Spetty said some time ago - all guilds end up placing campers about to even the playing field or the system of how bosses spawn gets vahnged and I have no idea at all about how difficult that is
Is we speak as a collective voice we can stop getting bogged down in one homin's view

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#46 Añadido por Virg 1 década hace [en] 

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Good point Bina lets just do that.

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________________________

Guild Leader of Syndicate
________________________



Facebook
Syndicate's Page (Shuriiken here)
A glimpse into Virg's life
Thug life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#47 Añadido por Mermaidia 1 década hace [en] 

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Unfortunately camping is already allowed...

So maybe you ought to update your post asking if it should be forbidden and punished or not.
Indeed it would be clearer and we would be able to answer correctly.

Many thanks in advance :)

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Mermaidia, heureuse Chef des Eclaireurs d'Atys
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Homins, unissons-nous et agissons dès maintenant afin de préparer notre futur sur la Belle Atys!
Libres et fiers, en quête de notre histoire commune et de nos racines, nous retrouverons et protégerons ce monde qui nous a tant fait vibrer!

#48 Añadido por Elvanae 1 década hace [en] 

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Daomei (atys)

A word to Elvanae about my naivity: Yes I believe that the waste majority of all players, no matter whether Kami, Kara, Neutrals, or Marauders, whether Asylum, SA, Seve Noire, or any other, are good-willing, love the game and hate cheating and unfairness. And that is the base one should work along, not starting blame games and pillory, inciting hatred and resentment, and splitting along guild or alliance lines.

I require some clarity on two points first:

1. Are you telling me directly that my post incites hatred and resentment?

2. Do you want to permit players to make alts who camp spots whilst they themselves carry on doing other activities. (Thus far, I have noted you sit on the fence about it and prefer to nitpick and focus on other issues.)

And to further my initial post:
To me, Atys is, like the real world, a society of homins who can each form opinions about issues and express them freely. Well, what happens in the real world? The people voice their concerns and the leaders listen.

Well, homins have voiced their concerns, whether you like it or not. Just look at the poll right now and the posts that have followed, not to mention previous threads that also deal with the issue of camping.

The devs clearly have not addressed this sufficiently.

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#49 Añadido por Daomei 1 década hace [de] 

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Elvanae (atys)
I require some clarity on two points first:
Bit more politeness would not be bad. I shall respond anyway
Elvanae (atys)
1. Are you telling me directly that my post incites hatred and resentment?
No. I addressed you about the point of naivety.
Elvanae (atys)
2. Do you want to permit players to make alts who camp spots whilst they themselves carry on doing other activities. (Thus far, I have noted you sit on the fence about it and prefer to nitpick and focus on other issues.)
I am not a CSR and have not to allow. But I understand well that the CSR are not fond of policing any pettiness.
And I have clearly told that I do not condone camping. I have stated repeatedly that I do not see the swarms of alts camping at boss locations. About that I receive excuses and distractions instead of facts and data.

When a player has further accounts camping boss spots I clearly frown upon. If it were a proven mass phenomenon the CSR might think about the rules. So far I fail to see any indication for. A few players have, admittedly by themselves, camped tree spots with their main and subbed alt. One may dislike that, but taking actions for would be largely overblown. All else is mere speculation.

As to the rest: I have not voted in this poll as it is inconclusive, and so haven't many. I see here largely a campaign of a group of buddies blowing up the issue and in addition a few who were spouting slander and violating forum rules to an extent that some threads got wiped. And that was what I was addressing with hatred and resentment.

You have your opinion, voiced and echoed by a not really large group, and I have mine, some others may have a different one. And the CSR and dev may have their own, in your words: like it or not.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#50 Añadido por Elvanae 1 década hace [en] 

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Politeness goes both ways.
Since you saw fit to respond to my original post with a paragraph including:

" love the game and hate cheating and unfairness. And that is the base one should work along, not starting blame games and pillory, inciting hatred and resentment, and splitting along guild or alliance lines."

You therefore aimed it at me, with my name proceeding, and if you did not, then maybe structuring your post better would not have lead me towards the impression that you see fit to place yourself in the moral high ground and direct it to me specifically.

I did not say you are naive at all, where did you see this from? I'm sorry but it you response doesn't properly make sense to me... but never mind). I stated an obvious point of what the reality of the situation is, whether you know it to be so or not and for others who may also not regard what I pointed out as very important to the issue of camping and linked to it in terms of supply and demand.

And further, if you state that you require "facts and data" I would have thought that you would have welcomed a suggestion to name and shame and therefore screenshot the alts together with those responsible for using them.

Anyways, your last sentence is precisely what I was saying in my previous post. Although you regard it as 'not real large group' when it is in fact a majority view. Let's not play on the definitions of words now.

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